Long term Secondary Infertility - anyone want to chat?

(348 Posts)
closephine85 Wed 29-Mar-17 21:47:21

Recently I've been feeling like I don't quite fit on any of the threads currently running. I know there is a support thread for ladies with secondary infertility already which I dip in and out of. However, now having watched many women come and go on that thread and seeing new ones come who haven't been trying for so long and are a lot more hopeful of a happy ending than I am, I just want a place to vent/moan/hate on this crap situation but to also be able to refer to the fact that I am a mother (obviously insensitive to do so on some of the other support threads, but where I actually feel more at home).

About me: I have a 5 year old son and have been ttc a second child for 3.5 years. 3 failed rounds of iui and a recent failed round of ivf/IMSI. We have 2 blasts in the freezer but I'm fairly convinced they aren't going to work either due to DH's high DNA fragmentation, I think they are probably chromasomally defunct. So if/when that doesn't work, we either admit defeat or move on to donor sperm. Both shitty options.

I feel defeated. Like I have failed as a mother. I can't give my son a sibling and even if I do, there will be at least 6.5 years between them. In the meantime he has to put up with me being always just a little bit miserable...

Anyone care to join me for a bitch and a moan?

OP’s posts: |
mrskittenpie Thu 30-Mar-17 08:57:49

closephine I'll join you if I can? I no longer have any hope, my cycles are beyond crap, nhs won't touch me as we have ds. I also need somewhere to vent as no one in real life wants to hear it anymore. Ttc for nearly 3 years. Ds has just turned 5, he is the only only child in his class. It is just shit. We've got empty spare rooms in our house that are just a constant reminder that we're not going to have the big family I dreamed of. I cry in secret at every pregnancy announcement, work out who will be next to announce and build myself up to it. I am surrounded by 2 and 3 child families and am finding it harder all the time to deal with it. I am angry that other people can have babies all the time and angry we are the only ones that can't. I am always sad about it too, it spoils everything. There will be an announcement soon in the family from a couple who have just got married and I literally don't know how I'm going to cope with having that rubbed in my face all the time too.

closephine85 Thu 30-Mar-17 14:10:18

Hi MrsKitten - of course! I feel exactly the same. People have got bored of talking about it. Although I have one wonderful real life friend who still humours me at the moment. I've just found out that a couple whose wedding we went to when we had been trying for 7 months are about to have their second baby. People seem to have kept it from us/been too scared to tell us I think.

I had my son a little earlier than all my friends (I was 26) so now they are all starting to get pregnant and I dread every whatsapp message and meet up for fear of an announcement.

Sometimes I cannot believe that he was born in 2011 and that if we got pregnant soon they would be born in 2018! That just seems massive! (But I'd take it. Don't get me wrong!)

To top it all off I've been told this morning that I have to have surgery for something non infertility related and that the wait list is likely 3 months. I don't really want to go back for our FET until this is sorted so it puts a potential delay as had been planning on going back in may.

OP’s posts: |
Luckynut Thu 30-Mar-17 15:26:26

Hi, I can join, I have a son born 2004 and been trying for a sibling since 2006, yep, thats 11 years. So I am not anticipating a miracle any time soon. My worry about age gaps left a long time ago, my son has long since stopped asking for a brother or sister and now is happy as an only. Still makes me sad though, i have 2 brothers and we are all close in age so they are a big part of my memories about growing up and my son won't have that.

Anyway, I have had 3 ICSI failed cycles, my eggs are crappy and at aged 34 thats a bit shit so i have moved on to embryo adoption, I had one cycle of this abroad last year which resulted in my first positive in over 12 years but was sadly not meant to be and i miscarried just before christmas. I have another go coming up, transfer should be early May, my hopes are low though and this is possibly our last shot as financially cant afford to keep going.

I know what you mean about people being sick of hearing about it! To be fair I am sick of talking about it too, its taken over my whole life, I have friends who seek me out when they start trying to conceive, worried a few months in that its not happening for them, comparing themselves with my struggle, then getting pregnant and are all oh yes i know what its like it took me 6 months!!

Sorry to hear closephine that you will potentially be delayed in your treatment, i have had lots of gaps inbetween all of mine and its hard when you just want to get on with it. I hope you don't have to wait as long as you expect.

mrskittenpie Thu 30-Mar-17 18:11:22

close- I know exactly what you mean about people having their second baby in the time you have been ttc. That gets me so upset and angry but it's all around us. I have one friend who is going to be reluctant to tell me when she's having her second, she's not sure about starting ttc this one yet but you can 100% guarantee it'll happen straightaway. The rest of my friends are incredibly insensitive about the fact they can all get pregnant, I know I sound bitter and jealous, I am.

I too dread WhatsApp messages and meet ups for that too. The messages are slightly easier than the face to face, I cry still but at least with the messages I don't have to pretend to look pleased.

I'm sorry you've been told about having some surgery. That is a blow you have to wait.

I know, the age gap thing seems incredible. But like you I would be so bloody grateful of any age gap now. My age worries me though, I am nearly at the time where I think dh will say enough is enough, then I've no idea what I will do.

mrskittenpie Thu 30-Mar-17 18:18:14

Hi lucky - sorry you find yourself in this situation too, that must be awful having been ttc so long. Yes I know what you mean about friends seeking you out then conceiving quickly and once again you have to deal with someone's pregnancy.

It really is crap isn't it? I feel like I am being pitied all the time by the other mum's at school and it's a horrible feeling. I can't believe it. I can't believe that all the things I've tried - literally everything- has made not a scrap of difference. We have decided we can't afford ivf though so this is it now. I'm going to get some tests done privately, even if it just gives me closure but there won't be any treatments.

lat1085 Thu 30-Mar-17 20:46:31

Hi ladies,

Mind if I join in? I sympathise with you all - this situation we all find ourselves in is just a big massive hideous nightmare. We conceived our dd (aged 5) without even meaning too, and when she was 2 decided it would be nice time for a second. That was almost three and a half years ago, and we've since had every test under the bloody sun and five rounds of ivf (3 bfns and 2 early miscarriages). We have a frozen embryo left which we will hopefully try soon, then it'll be more ivf (or donor eggs/embryos, if dh will just agree to it....).

It's just heartbreaking isn't it - all the things you do to give yourself the best chance of getting pregnant but with no success, yet most other people just choose to have a baby and then 9 or so months later they give birth!

I am so bitter and jealous and resentful - I hate the person this has turned me into. My sis-in-law is due her second baby in a couple of weeks (her first isn't even two), and I can barely bring myself to see her/talk to her about the pregnancy.

I see pregnant ladies or ladies with babies in the shops/school/park, and just have really intense feelings of hatred! It's ridiculous.

Closephine, we too had our dd quite young (26 as well!), and most of friends have only just started having kids in the last couple of years. My best friend did actually struggle, and had her ds through ivf, but most others have had no problems. One friend got pregnant about a week after her wedding with her first, then conceived her second when the first was about 7 months old!! It's infuriating and devastating. I'm sorry to hear about your surgery too - when do you think you may be able to go for your FET then?

Luckynut, I'm so sorry to hear about your miscarriage. After everything we go through to even have a chance of pregnancy, to have it snatched away is the cruelest trick of all. Do you mind me asking where you went for your treatment? We're with a clinic in the Czech Republic (own egg ivf currently), but I'm really keen to move to donor eggs or embryos if I can convince dh we should just go for it!

Sorry again ladies that you're all in this predicament and feeling crap. Xx

mrskittenpie Thu 30-Mar-17 21:31:24

Hi lat - sorry you're in this situation too and how awful to go through all the ivf and miscarriages. I hope you can try with the frozen embryo soon.

It is utterly heartbreaking. I am bitter and resentful too, I agree, I hate who I've become too. I take no interest in my friend's pregnancies anymore and will actively avoid spending time with anyone who is pregnant or has a baby, it's not always possible though to avoid. All my friends have got 2 children now except one friend through choice and I hate it so much, I'm always thinking why us?

What I really hate is the utter ease with which everyone conceives, they just have to think 'let's have a baby' and next minute there's an announcement. They plan their age gaps, they plan what month is best to have their next baby and when I hear these conversations it makes me want to scream. A woman from work last year said her husband was back from the army so they were going on holiday to 'make a baby' - they already had a 1 year old. So of course she got pregnant on that holiday, how is that even possible? And it was twins

closephine85 Fri 31-Mar-17 06:52:43

Lucky - wow 11 years. That deserves some kind of award (that no one could possibly want!) and I am so sorry about your miscarriage. After so long that just seems extra cruel.

Lat - hi! I hadn't realised our stats were so similar; same age, same age dc, trying for same amount of time. Have they found any reasons for your infertility?

One of my friends actively started seeking me out late last year (after a number of years with not much contact but I had told her about our struggle ttc) and I said to DH straight away she must be pregnant. At the time I thought perhaps my radar was off. Why would someone who knows a friend they haven't seen for some time is unable to conceive, decide to try and rekindle a friendship after becoming pregnant themselves?! But sure enough... the message came a couple of months ago. Apart from a short reply I haven't been I touch since and have avoided social meet ups when I know she's there. And I end up feeling guilty about it!! Because I do know she simply doesn't 'get' it. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth sending a message explaining? Has anyone ever done that and been met with a positive response?

Re the surgery, the Dr did say he would try for me to see if it could be done sooner but that obviously (and rightly so) urgent cases take priority. So I just have to wait and see what happens for now. I think I can ask to go on a cancellation list as could go in relatively last minute.

OP’s posts: |
FortyFacedFuckers Fri 31-Mar-17 07:06:59

I'm similar to luckynut son born in 2005 and been ttc #2 since 2005 have spent a fortune on ivf and had 2 miscarriages. We had set a cut off date and decided to stop trying last year. I'm still heartbroken but in someways it's easier for me to get on with my life than living on that rollercoaster that I was on for 10 years.
I've found it very difficult that no one seems to sympathise with secondary infertility everyone seems to say oh well at least you have one which is true but it still doesn't help the devastation & guilt of having an only when you always wanted a big family.

FortyFacedFuckers Fri 31-Mar-17 07:09:00

Sorry ttc from 2006

Chocolatecake12 Fri 31-Mar-17 08:29:09

I've read this thread and it bought back so many memories.
I had IVF for my first child and then for 5 years I struggled with failed IVF and failed FET.
The heartbreak of even seeing another pregnant women was horrible let alone friends. What made it worse for me was that my lovely SIL and best friend were both pregnant with their second. Spending time with them was so very difficult. It made it awkward at family get togethers and I know my poor mother struggled too.
The feeling when you look at your first born and feel like you've let them down by not giving them a sibling. Heartbreaking - the tears I shed could have filled an Olympic sized swimming pool.
I had to decide not to go through further IVF. It was another heartbreaking decision but the right one for us. I went through a proper grieving process and had anti-depressants to help me come to terms with it.

Good luck to all of you trying to achieve your dream. May you find happiness whatever the future holds and peace with whatever the final outcomes be may be.
flowers to you all.

Luckynut Fri 31-Mar-17 15:53:52

Hi mrskitten. The pity is awful isn't it, like we are not going through enough already. My 2 sister in laws both had their first babies last year and I found it the hardest time. I had to make up excuses to avoid the baby showers, so add guilt now to the mix. I missed what was a really happy time for them but I couldn't bear to have gone and dealt with the 'are you having any more' questions from the people who i dont know and the pity from those who know what we've been through, was a no win situation.
Good luck with getting the tests done, its nice to know what the problem is as like you say can bring a bit of closure. I have never had a definite answer as to my infertility, after a lot of tests they say I have a bit of endo, not great eggs and dh sperm samples vary dramatically so probably an all round thing.

Hi Lat, Which clinic in czech are you with? We are with GEST in prague, its not one of the most popular ones but the costs were competitive and my coordinator has been really helpful and responsive. My doctor there is not very compromising though, i've been trying to get him to up my prednisone slightly but he is having none of it so after this cycle in the unlikely event we decide to try again I may be looking at different Prague clinics.

Hi closephine, thanks for the thread! I often flick through this forum but nowhere really fits. They class infertility as a year or more but when youve been going at it as long as I have a year feels like a drop in the ocean.
I'm not sure on whether sending a message to thoughtless friends is a good idea, I don't think anyone that has not been through it can ever truly get it, even my mum says she finds it hard to know what to do and say as she had no struggle at all.

Hi Fortyfacedfuckers, how nice to meet someone who has been in it as long as I have! You have so much strength to be able to say enough is enough and stick with your cut off date. I am so scared of falling apart that I can't say never, even though financially I can't go on forever. Yes the at least you have one comment is shit, basically saying your feelings are not valid and you should just get over it. The last thing you need to hear when you have trusted them to talk to about it.

Hi Chocolate, Thats a lovely post, I hope one day I can come to terms with my infertility and move on as well as you have.

closephine85 Sat 01-Apr-17 05:48:53

Fortyfaced - yup the 'at least you've got one!' Comment grates so much. It's like it's diminishing our right to be upset about it. To me, it also just shows a lack of understanding. So much of my drive for another is for the 'one' I already have. I can't lie, of course much if it is for myself as well, but he is my world and my desire to give him a sibling for HIM and to enrich HIS life is huge. The comment so often comes from people with 2 or 3 kids themselves too. I just don't get it.

Chocolate - thank you for your message, it's nice to see that there is hope on the other side even if it doesn't work out the way we want. Im glad you have been able to make peace with it.

Lucky - thankfully I didn't send a message as the friend messaged me yesterday and is coming to see me tomorrow and wants to meet up next week too so it would have made things quite awkward. I'm just going to have to suck it up and put on my happy face. It feels like I'm being actively sought out to have my nose rubbed in it, but I do know it's just coming from a thoughtless place and not a malicious one.

OP’s posts: |
MsJuniper Sat 01-Apr-17 07:02:27

I hope you don't mind me posting here as my problem is slightly different but it was such a relief to read other people feeling the same way as I feel so constantly guilty.

I had DS in 2012 when I was 36, after a year of trying and previous years of ill health. I was pregnant again on his 2nd birthday and have a picture from that day which I think of as the last time I was truly happy. I lost the pregnancy at 9 weeks and have since gone on to lose 5 more. I am locked in a constant cycle of guilt, remorse, anguish and more guilt. Guilt at not giving DS a sibling, guilt at not enjoying life with him as much as I should, guilt at hating any women pregnant with #2,3,4... guilt at avoiding my friends or boring them, guilt at the weight I've gained, guilt if I don't want to have sex, guilt at my own selfishness, guilt at leaving it too late in the first place.

No-one understands, even my close family think I need to relax and it'll happen, think positive, at least I can get pg etc. I don't think anyone appreciates how relentless it is, two weeks of every month hopeful, sometimes longer, then back to square one. I spend my time making calculations about age gaps and remaining cycles and how old I'd be when a potential dc was born/graduated/married or how old it would be when I died.

Sorry for such a long ramble.

closephine85 Sat 01-Apr-17 16:27:17

Hi MsJuniper - I am so sorry for all your losses, that is just totally crap sad you hit the nail on the head with all the guilt. I feel exactly the same. So sad that we have to feel guilty on top of dealing with everything else we're going through.

Well today has been baby bump central for me. I have seen 3 people I have been avoiding/dreading bumping into. It's a bit like ripping off a plaster I guess. At least it's done and I managed to ask the right questions and put a smile on my face even though I feel like I'm on the edge of a melt down!

OP’s posts: |
closephine85 Sat 01-Apr-17 16:28:27

Oh I think my smile have faltered slightly at the 'I had a bit of a freak out when we found out/not sure how I'm going to cope with two!' comments though!

OP’s posts: |
mrskittenpie Sat 01-Apr-17 18:01:28

Welcome msjuniper - sorry you're going through this too. I have the guilt too and it's vile isn't it. I'm sorry you've had those losses too, life can be so cruel.

closephine - oh no. How awful. I live my life dreading seeing the friends with bumps. I have actually hidden from friends when I've seen them somewhere and couldn't face the happy bump chat blush. Well done you. Urgh - fancy having to hear that comment too. I always reply quite harshly with 'I wouldn't know', not that that shuts the more insensitive ones up but makes me feel very slightly better

DizzyMerry11 Sat 01-Apr-17 18:37:18

Hi, can I join in too? I've dipped into the other secondary infertility thread too but this one feels right for me. We've been trying for our second for 3 years now, with a mmc in September 2015 and not a whiff of a bfp since. Our DD is 4 and we haven't used contraception since she was born! DH has just had a private SA and his morphology is 1% and slightly reduced motility too. I haven't had any tests so far and just don't know where to start with these.

When we were ttc DD I was told that my AMH was very low. I was 30 at the time and the consultant said my ovaries were behaving like they belong to a 40 year old confused I conceived DD naturally a month later but I just know my eggs will be beyond rubbish now so I just keep thinking there's no point even trying IVF.

Closephine I'm sorry the ivf didn't work and that you now have to wait for your op before starting again.

Kitten DD is the only child at pre school without a sibling and it breaks my heart. She has started asking when she can have a sister/brother and have tried to brush her off by saying soon.

Lucky sorry to hear about your miscarriage. 11 years is a heck of a long time ttc. It's just rubbish isn't it? The pity from others gives me the rage as if I don't know DD is an only child and a 4 years there'll be a massive age gap?! hmm

lat I'm sorry about your miscarriages. It really is heartbreaking.

forty and chocolate thank you for sharing your stories. It must have been difficult to make peace with your decisions to stop trying. You both must have so much strength to do that.

Juniper sorry for all your losses. You're right nobody understands what we're going through and it's so isolating.

mrskittenpie Sat 01-Apr-17 19:12:06

Hi dizzy, welcome to the thread. It really is awful isn't it. I get the questions from ds too sad No I'm not sure with the tests either - I've decided to try and get some done privately but I'm scared really.

DizzyMerry11 Sat 01-Apr-17 19:30:55

I'm scared too kitten. Last time I had so much anxiety around the fertility tests and I really don't want to go down that route again. I had a lap to treat my endo in 2010 and I'm just concerned that it's come back but I really don't want to find out by having another lap. I might start with day 3 and day 21 tests along with a scan to check for any cysts. A HyCosy might be helpful too. To be really honest though I've had enough of this ttc but on the other hand I'm not ready to give up yet either.

user1490948702 Mon 03-Apr-17 12:54:40

Hi, I've joined Mumsnet after lurking because I'm really struggling at the moment (will change my name when I can work out how as it's confusing usernumber at the moment). I had IUI to have my son in 2010 and since then have had more IUI and considering IVF as a last ditch attempt now (I'm 38). I kept hoping I'd get over this feeling and it just doesn't go away. When people had their second children that was hard but mostly it was quite close to the first child in age and I was so grateful to have my son (still am!!!) that if didn't hurt as much. But now it seems to be the fashion to have at least 3 and I just feel like I can't rustle up any friendliness for my friends who are having their third. As if they are just greedy now! I seem to have given people a free pass on two but with three I become massively embittered. My son seems very happy being in a one child family and has rarely asked about a sibling. In fact, apart from sometimes at weekends and holidays, I think he'd be happier without a sibling (and at this point there'd be over seven years between them so they wouldn't be playmates) so I know it's just me really who wants to keep trying and spending all our money on this path... my husband would be happy as things are or with one more (he says). I just hoped I'd get through the everyone else having babies stage and it would be easier but with these third ones it is lasting forever! I've started to fall out of touch with some friends and feel like a horrible friend and person, even more so as I have a few single friends in their late thirties who would love to meet or have met someone and had kids by now so I know how lucky I am. Anyway, this is probably really long! Thanks for starting the thread, it's good to get this out somewhere.

mrskittenpie Mon 03-Apr-17 20:55:12

Hi user - welcome to the thread. People having their 3rd does seem greedy! I bet it does seem never ending. I'm dreading that now, I've just gone through the wave of 2nd babies with everyone so no doubt the 3rd ones will start soon. Don't feel like a horrible friend and person, you're not at all, it's such a difficult place to be in and nobody gets it, although I feel I'm a bad friend too but I have to keep reminding myself that distancing myself is the only way I can cope with it all. I know exactly what you mean about finding it hard to rustle up friendliness - it's so hard isn't it.
dizzy - I'm not ready to give up ttc either even though when I am honest with myself it's obvious there's something wrong in nearly 3 years. I keep putting off making an appointment with the fertility clinic because of being scared. So add coward to being infertile - what a great combination

Hula2 Mon 03-Apr-17 23:46:21

Hi Ladies,

So many of your posts reasonate with me its good to have a place to share where people really understand.

We struggled for 2yrs to have ds when i was 36. He was a natural conception with low amh (3) when we were about to start ivf. He is now five, no contraception (except breastfeeding for a few yrs) since born and had a 10wk miscarriage in april 2014. Since then have done 6mns of femara (one chemical) and buckets of immune drugs and a round of ivf in dec 16 where i produced one egg that didn t fertilse. No issues with dh. Now i m nearly 42 and realise that there really is no point throwing more money at ivf so thats the end of the road for intervention so we re just limping along still ttc naturally but somehow i still can t seem to kill the hope despite 3.5 yrs of trying...

I totally get the resentment of other pregnancies esp no 3 (or 4!), in the time of ttc no2 there have been 8 babies in our small workplace and there is usually at least two people pregnant at any one time. One of the dreads i have of never succeeding (which is looking everymore likely) is i m always going to harbour these feelings of resentment. Its good to hear some of you have managed to finally move on. I have to say i feel like an idiot not just being able to give up when the my chances must now be so remote....sad

People really don t understand and the 'be grateful for one' comments suggests you re just being greedy. What they don t understand is you d move heaven and earth for your one child and that includes trying to give them a sibling.

Infertility, whether primary, secondary or both is such a shitty, relentless situation that its amazing we all manage to function each day. You re all strong, amazing women and i m sorry for all your struggles.flowers

mrskittenpie Tue 04-Apr-17 21:39:07

Hi hula - you're so right, it is such a shitty, relentless situation.
I'm sorry you've had such a difficult time. I know exactly what you mean about limping along ttc, I feel like that too.
I feel like I will always have the resentment of the 2nd, 3rd pregnancies etc, it's hard to let go of the bitterness. We went for a walk at the weekend and every family walking past had at least 2 children, it was so difficult. Ds was so lovely and had a good time but I kept worrying he wasn't having as much fun because he's an only child. There were bumps everywhere too. It honestly feels like it's just us struggling. That's so true, to give ds a sibling would be amazing and I'm sick of feeling guilty for not 'being grateful'
Anyway a bit of amusement for you ladies... dh rang me at work today and said 'do we have to have sex again tonight?' ! Unfortunately despite being cd20 my ovusense says I haven't ovulated yet so I told him 'yes' - who said romance was dead? Utterly pointless I know but somehow it feels wrong to not do it despite me knowing deep down even when we do every day it will never happen. Pathetic I know

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