Multiple failures, a place to chat

[Zippybear]

Anyone else out there with multiple failures wondering what to do next? We've just had our fourth embryo transfer fail. Issues on both sides. In the last year I've had two surgeries, dh has had one and we are still no further forward. We haven't had a holiday that wasn't time off for ivf since 2015. We feel battered and bruised and stuck on a hellish infertility rollercoaster that we can't get off unless we want to accept childlessness we have another nhs cycle but I'm not sure I can cope with it (or if there is any point). I don't know whether to give up, think of donor, adoption or just accept our lot. Anyone else wondering the same?

[Blondeshavemorefun]

After 2 in uk failed we stopped. Had spent £12k

We Licked our wounds and had a year off

We decided wasn't ready to stop so saved and went abroad as cheaper

After 4 failed ivf (including 2 uk we paid for) we did think about stopping as money and heartbreak but we did have 3 left frozen from cycle 3

So said would use those (my eggs) and maybe consider de for one last go

5th a fet worked

How many failed did you have ?

Guess it depends what you and dh problems are and whether can be cured

What did your clinic say

[Blondeshavemorefun]

Sorry you said 4. You have a NHS go. Use it. I didn't get any as df has kids in 20's

Discuss with them why failed

I would suggest an era to check lining issues

[AngelicaSchuyler]

Hi Zippy - so sorry you're going through this.

We're gearing up to start our first privately-funded ivf after 4 unsuccessful cycles on the Nhs in 2014 (2x fresh, 2 x FET which were both chemical pregnancies).

We've had pretty much every test going (clotting, killer cells etc) and everything's come back normal. I have endometriosis and had a laparoscopy and excision last summer so hopefully that might help. No one can tell us why it won't work - we're a textbook case right up to transfer where it all goes wrong.

This time we're doing an elective freeze-all with PGS because of the repeated inplantation failure. My baseline scan is tomorrow and I'm terrified

I'm so sorry you're in this same shit situation. We needed a year off to get over all the trauma of failed cycles and 'find ourselves' again after a whole year focussed on ivf. We moved house, both changed jobs and feel much more able to deal with it.

However, there is a grim inevitability about it all. There's not excitement or hope or positive thinking, just preparing ourselves for the worst.

I'm rambling!! Is there a way you could both give yourself some time off from it all? I remember my 4th failed cycle and almost a weird sense of relief that's body wouldn't be put through that again for a while.

Hugs to you - I think you can only really understand the feeling of exhaustion and despair that comes with multiple cycles if you've been through it yourself xxxxxxx

[AngelicaSchuyler]

Oops, our cycles were in 2015, not 2014!

[Zippybear]

Need to book the wtf appointment with the clinic blondes but can't face it just yet.
Hope your baseline scan went ok today angelica. I also have endo but we have a couple of other issues too. we had 6months off between our last failure and this but we are not getting any younger, unless we are going to move to donor or adoption we need to crack on. Totally hear you about the weird sense of relief -- i was so happy towards the end of both of the last cycles as whatever the result it would at least be over and I could have my body back to myself. With two surgeries as well I really felt quite traumatised and like my body was no longer my own (which would be fine if you succeeded.. but when it's all for nothing is a bit of a head fuck)
Hi boat. We've had some of the mad tests, but not them all. I've had empirical immunes treatment for some cycles. It just feels like a bottomless pit of time and money that even the experts don't understand. Someone posted an ivf success calculator which I have just tried. Apparently we would have a 40% chance of success over 6 cycles. Pretty crap odds eh. We are really considering donor embryo now, would massively increase our chances but I guess you can still fail at that. I'd be interested to hear what you decide to do, it's a lonely place to be.
to all, thanks for replying x

[Blondeshavemorefun]

Age depending I would consider de. I've worked for severely mums who had de and they were very open about the subject so know a fair amount even tho I've only used my own eggs

But if this and few left frozen had failed df and I would have tried de as a last option

Adoption. They won't start the process until least a year after last failed ivf or if had recent death in close family

Please have a chat with your clinic and see what they advise :/suggest

[bananafish81]

zippy sending you all the hugs - it's just shit

You know my story - 4 IVF cycles, 3 cancelled cycles, 2 pregnancies, 2 miscarriages of chromosomally normal embryos, 1 ERPC, 2 hysteroscopies and now 2 HRT cycles and 3 ovulation induction cycles with a copper IUD just to try and have periods to try and fix my broken uterus

Oh and cancer investigations. FUN TIMES

We're facing the end of the road in that we've said if we can't turn a third euploid embryo into a person, then there's no reason to think that given everything we've thrown at the last 2 cycles, that we'd have any more success with a 4th, or 5th. And that we'd have to accept that my uterus wasn't up to the job, and that our best chance would be to transfer into someone else's

I said to my Dr to please remind me of this when I would undoubtedly come in after the next miscarriage, and ask to try just one more go with our remaining frosties

It's just shit. I think we must all have been evil dictators / narco terrorists / massive cunts in a former life

I'm sorry we all have cause to be here xx

[Flipthebirdy]

Whatever you choose to do you will be a mother one day and you will look at your baby and think you were soooo worth it. And one day you can tell your child about how much mummy and daddy wanted them xx

[bananafish81]

That is indeed a lovely sentiment Flip but tbh a little inappropriate given the entire raison d'être of this thread

We are all absolutely terrified that we will never become mothers. That we will never be able to tell a child how deeply wanted they were and are.

Other routes to parenthood aren't so simple. Not every couple is aligned about moving to donor conception. If one partner isn't comfortable with moving to DE or DS, what do you do? DE in the UK is very expensive - what if after multiple rounds of treatment you don't have the funds for DE? Abroad is cheaper - but you can't get donor ID release. To do a donor cycle overseas you have to be OK with the fact that your donor is completely anonymous and your child won't ever be able to trace their genetic origins. Many couples prefer anonymous donation. Many don't.

In my case take surrogacy. If I just can’t sustain a pregnancy, and our only chance of having a baby is to use a gestational carrier, do we pursue UK surrogacy, where the legal framework simply isn't in place to protect either surro or IP (and the cost is around £15,000)? Do we pursue surrogacy in Georgia or Ukraine, which is ethically dubious (women forced into becoming surrogates in order to feed their families), you don't get to choose or in many cases even meet the woman who will be carrying your child for 9 months, you're looking at £30-40,000 and you have to live in the country for up to 3 months while you wait for a British passport to bring the baby back to the UK? Do we pursue US surrogacy, where surrogacy arrangements are legally enforceable and you have much more control over the relationship with the surrogate (who undergoes strict vetting and has ongoing support from the surrogacy agency), and in a surrogacy friendly state your name goes on the birth certificate? But you're looking at £100-150,000.

Not every couple feels emotionally prepared for adoption - DH and I don't feel we are equipped to voluntarily take on a child with complex developmental needs and/ or attachment disorder, nor strong enough for the teenage years when many adoptions break down.

It's rather glib to say that we will one day all be mothers. Because as much as I would like to believe that's true, sadly that’s not always the case.

BiggerBoat I know what you mean about having a thread for those of us with multiple failures - I don’t feel I fit in on most of the other threads - I just feel very jaded about it all.

I’m getting my IUD out in a week or so when I get my period, and the plan is to do a mock FET, i.e. a dummy run so we can check the dose of meds to see how my lining responds, and do the ERA biopsy. So maybe best case have a crack at the real thing in a month or so?

FUCK.

In terms of level 1 and 2s, it’s possible to do the level 2s for significantly cheaper if you do them via Locus Medicus in Greece (although you still need a Dr to prescribe pred / intralipids / clexane etc if the tests throw anything up). If you google ‘level 2 immunes locus medicus bananafish’ (haha) there’s a thread I posted on FF about how to do the tests with them, in case that’s helpful x

[bananafish81]

And good luck Angelica - thinking of you

[Zippybear]

Flip Unfortunately at the minute I'm more imagining a teenager screaming 'I never asked to be born' at me while I try and explain why we did what we did (it might involve donor embryos from eastern europe). Not quite as straightforward as all that
Waves to bananafish. Everything crossed for you in the next few months.
Im glad you and boat like the idea of the thread. I thought that realising I didn't fit in conception anymore was depressing, but it turns out starting to feel out of place in infertility beats that hands down. Maybe we can carve out a safe place for ourselves here.

[TammySwanson]

I hear you on that banana. I'm sick of every thread being shitted up by someone coming on saying 'it will all be ok once you hold your bubba in your arms and the angels will sing and the world will be at peace and blah blah blah'. A lot of us are at the stage of realising that we may have to come to terms with never having children and we what we need is someone to say 'you're going to be ok whatever happens - you'll come to terms with it' not that our happiness depends on having children which is imho just a cruel lie, and especially horrible to put on an infertility board where people are dealing with all sorts of mental health consequences of their situation.

Sorry, that was a bit longer that I expected, I'm just sick of it all and the recent 'Am I infertile and by the way I have 5 other kids but why is this one taking longer than 3 months??? I won't be able to live unless I have my 6th child!!!' ridiculousness that's been going on on this board. I'm also feeling like I don't really belong here anymore.

[Flipthebirdy]

For me, the belief that I would get there kept me going.

[AngelicaSchuyler]

How many rounds of ivf did you have, flip?

Thanks for your good wishes, everyone. I've been lurking on here since before the beginning of the 'mind-numbing boredom' thread, but you've all just articulated why I don't feel like I fit in. I took a peek on the Feb/March ivf thread but just couldnt bring myself to post, I've just been through this so many times before. Its all made even more excruciating this time as my younger sister is currently 6 months pregnant. Everyone is being v supportive and considerate but I'm finding it incredibly exhausting being 'ok' with it all.

Best of luck to you banana and sending hugs your way zippy, Tammy and Bigger. Maybe we can be like the Super Bowl of barrens

[Flipthebirdy]

I can't even be bothered to defend myself here. Didn't realise I had to explain my worthiness before joining the chat.

[Flipthebirdy]

I do apologise. It obviously wasn't intentional. Just did feel jumped on.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

Flip - I am assuming you are now preg or a mum?

I totally understand where the others are coming from as had 4 failed ivf and got to the stage where I'm never going to be a mum

I'm so grateful that the 5th worked and currently preg so I now have a glimpse of what life will be like being a mum but also know how devastubg every failure and operation and test you have and usually pay for that you feel you are throwing money away as ivf is not guaranteed

Thy often say 3 cycles wilkes make you preg. Didn't happen with me and know same for many others

You have to think do we stop ivf or carry on hoping but being destroyed every failure

[Pinkheels]

Hey everyone, marking my place here- although after 4 failed cycles we've decided to call it a day, so not sure where this leaves me- feels a bit like limbo. We were officially discharged from our clinic last week and without another cycle to obsessively plan and research I feel both freed of the millstone hanging around my neck but at the same time bereft.
Flip, sorry if you feel jumped on, I'm sure you'll be able to remember the sheer futility and rawness of things not working, when you're in the midst of that, the last thing you want to hear is someone saying it'll all be worth it once it works, even though for you it's what kept you going, everyone has a different mechanism to get through it all. Pretty much everything Tammy said so eloquently. It's all shit and meaningless and soul destroying and the one thing I'm beginning to realise is that's never ending, this experience leaves you so scarred and like a completely different person.
Angelica, good luck with your baseline scan, for zippy, Tammy and bigger. Banana, at the risk of sounding like a fan girl, I'm continually in awe of your tenacity-keeping everything crossed for you- your strength is inspiring. Xxx

[Pepper1980]

Oh, this thread has come at the right time for me.

Since 2014, I've had five failed cycles (three fresh, two FET). The first four were implantation failure, the fifth an early miscarriage. All but the first fresh were private as we only get one NHS go where we are.

The miscarriage broke me a bit. It was the hope - finally feeling like it was our time, and then that hope being pissed all over then stamped on. In the aftermath I honestly felt like IVF would never work for us. I now swing between that sentiment, and feeling like as I was briefly pregnant last time, we shouldn't give up yet.

We're having another go soon. Not sure what will happen if (when) this doesn't work as DH isn't keen on the donor route and I'm not sure we're strong enough for adoption.

to all you ladies