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Supplements before FET

(15 Posts)
alifemoreordinary Wed 24-Aug-16 15:18:57

Hope I'm in the right corner for this thread.

I've had three failed IVFs and am about to go through a FET with some frozen eggs that we have in storage. I suspect that this FET may also not work so want to keep my body prepped for a potential new fresh cycle by continuing the supplements I've been taking.

I've been taking CoQ10, Royal Jelly and Ovacure (Myo-inositol, D-chiro-inositol), together with prenatal vits, folic acid. These are mainly for egg quality, not implantation. I've had some success with them, going from getting zero healthy embryos to 2 healthy embryos in the last cycles - not much, but better than zero.

Can anyone tell me whether it's fine to continue these through the FET process? I don't want to do anything that compromises implantation, but at the same time I don't want to come off them and compromise eqq quality in the next cycle. Doc says continue but not sure if he's particularly clued up on supplemental stuff.

Any advice gratefully received!

Bear2014 Wed 24-Aug-16 16:33:27

I'm also going through a FET next month after a failed IVF and have the same rationale about preparing for a fresh cycle later on. I will continue on the CoQ10, I've actually read that it's helpful for implantation as well as egg quality. At the moment I take Pregnacare Conception, Omega 3 + zinc, extra vit C, extra vit E, extra folic acid, and CoQ10. After transfer I think I'll stop the extra vit C and E, but continue with the rest.

alifemoreordinary Wed 24-Aug-16 16:51:52

Thanks Bear - I might add CoQ10 back in on that basis!

I've also been reading about something called an antihistamine protocol that apparently aids implantation - a mix of Benadryl, Pepcid and Claritin following ovulation through to post transfer. Thought up by a clinic in the States. Apparently there is some success with it. My doc was fairly skeptical but I'm wondering whether I might just run with it all the same.

alifemoreordinary Wed 24-Aug-16 16:51:53

Thanks Bear - I might add CoQ10 back in on that basis!

I've also been reading about something called an antihistamine protocol that apparently aids implantation - a mix of Benadryl, Pepcid and Claritin following ovulation through to post transfer. Thought up by a clinic in the States. Apparently there is some success with it. My doc was fairly skeptical but I'm wondering whether I might just run with it all the same.

Bear2014 Thu 25-Aug-16 06:30:07

Antihistamine protocol would possibly render me unconscious i reckon!

At the end of the day it's probably just all about the embryo quality.. I didn't do any of this when we had our DD (first time IVF success) but because we've had no success so far trying for a sibling i've done so much more research. If it's meant to implant, it will. If not, we're looking ahead to next steps.

alifemoreordinary Sat 27-Aug-16 07:22:55

For sure. Though both our embryos had been genetically tested and found to be 'normal' so we're at a bit of a loss as to what else we can do. Hard times this IVF nonsense.

bananafish81 Sat 27-Aug-16 17:59:46

Alife have you discussed immunes treatment more generally? The antihistamine protocol is AFAIK pretty left field - but although reproductive immunology is controversial and the NHS doesn't 'believe' in immunes, the number of women with unexplained implantation failure and recurrent miscarriage (of genetically normal embryos) who then successfully get and stay pregnant when they've got the right treatment, is pretty compelling

I miscarried what turned out to be a chromosomally normal embryo: we did another round with PGS testing, and am currently doing a FET to hopefully transfer one of our euploid blasts. However because embryo quality wasn't the issue last time, PGS alone doesn't solve the problem of trying to avoid history repeating itself

My consultant treats empirically for failed implantation and unexplained miscarriage, so we are doing a basic immunes protocol as part of the FET. The plan is for me to have intralipids next week (aiming for 7-10 days prior to ET), start prednisolone 3 days prior to ET, and add in Clexane and baby aspirin the day after transfer. My Dr doesn't use the more controversial immunes treatments like IVIG or Humira.

We don't know exactly what caused the miscarriage - but we know it was the soil, not the seed. So we're trying to optimise the uterine environment and cover off as many bases as possible - immunes being part of this.

Good luck with your FET xx

alifemoreordinary Sun 28-Aug-16 04:59:35

We did intralipids our last cycle, without success, aspirin also. I've also had a hysteroscopy and all found to be well. He thinks that there's possibly something that PGS is not picking up, but I thought it was fairly foolproof. Have just had a karyotype done (DH completed and all fine) - awaiting the results now though I suspect it'll come up clear and we'll be none the wiser.

Will talk to our doc about prednisone and clexane though - not sure whether these form part of his overall immune plan but we shall see!

Best of luck to you too x

bananafish81 Sun 28-Aug-16 09:31:31

I think the accuracy of PGS is dependent on the method used - the older the method the less accurate, but it's my understanding that this works the other way ie that embryos that are actually euploid are wrongly classified as abnormal.

Good luck with the karotyping : we didn't do this in the end, because the solution to any genetic issues is to do PGS, which we'd already agreed we were going to do.

Great news about the hysteroscopy - 10/10 trip advisor rating on your baby room!

(I had no idea what I was looking at when my Dr showed me the photos, he had to give me the guided tour of my uterus)

My issue is likely to have been the quality of the endometrium (and possibly compromised foetal blood flow), so it's probably the stuff we're doing to work on the lining (Neupogen wash yesterday, viagra pessaries up my vag, oh the glamour) and the Clexane which could potentially make any difference - the pred and intralipids are probably just belt and braces. My Dr isn't pro all the Chicago tests as he says peripheral blood doesn't necessarily indicate what's going on in the uterine environment, and they're a snapshot in time (levels bounce up and down), so he treats empirically rather than slavishly following levels. I did get the level 2 immunes tests done with the Athens lab who Serum use - as I got the lot done for €300 : it didn't make any difference to my treatment outcome, but I wanted to know if there was anything that might indicate a massive immunes red flag (all the level 1 tests came back clear - I had this before the cycle)

Was just looking for answers - which we didn't really find. Anything else is just tinkering round the edges - thyroxine to get my TSH into optimal range for fertility, doxycycline for DH and I to clear a ureaplasma infection

If I get or stay pregnant it'll be down to science and luck - not much we can do about the latter, sadly, so just trying to throw everything at the former!

alifemoreordinary Sun 28-Aug-16 11:07:07

Ah, so do you have a diagnosed thyroid issue, thus the thyroxine? And the viagra, I understand this helps with thin lining - was this your situation or are you doing it anyway to see if it helps? I can well identify with the throwing everything at it scenario!

It sounds like you've got the science part nailed as best you can, so crossing everything that the gods of luck get on and play their part!

bananafish81 Sun 28-Aug-16 11:27:36

Thyroid I'm within normal range so not hypothyroid - but for fertility they like it to be <2 (normal range is under 4, I was about 2.7) so I'm on low dose thyroxine just to get it in optimal range

And yes thin lining is very much my problem - my lining was borderline in my last transfer cycle (where I subsequently miscarried), and I've had two cancelled FET cycles (medicated FET and ovulation induction FET) because my lining wouldn't thicken, so we have 6 genetically perfect blasts on ice but haven't been able to put one back.

The only time my lining has thickened up at all was in my fresh cycles, so we're in the ridiculous situation of doing a full fresh round of stims with egg collection (but not making any embryos, giving eggs to research) just to try and thicken up my lining to put a PGS tested frostie back

So far so good, as it seems to be responding - think we're aiming for EC on Fri and then hopefully (please, please) a transfer the following Weds

When is your FET?

alifemoreordinary Sun 28-Aug-16 11:51:20

We're on cycle day 7 at the minute so probably in two weeks or so, depending on the lining. Will see what's what at my next scan.

Excellent news that you're responding well - sounds like you might have sorted the primary issue, how fantastic if that's the case. Wishing all the good vibes in the world for success smile

bananafish81 Sun 28-Aug-16 12:12:25

Thanks!!

Because of my crap lining, I hadn't had a proper period in months before my cycle in Jan - just clotty spotting, no actual bleed (sorry TMI). So although my lining last time did grow, because I hadn't had a proper clear out beforehand, it's possible that even though the top soil was decent, the bottom soil was rotten. I got pregnant, but miscarried at 10w in March

We thought we'd cracked the lining issue when I grew 11mm of lining in my freeze all cycle in May - we were expecting a mega period and then crack on with a FET in June. Ha! Didn't bleed at all - I was like 'but where does it GO?!' (Turns out you can absorb it)

After a cancelled ovulation induction FET, we expected I wouldn't get a proper period (again) and the plan was to do another hysteroscopy to check out the uterine environment (again), and put in a copper IUD. 1-2 months of progynova and a copper coil would hopefully get me to menstruate - Dr said we had to get me to have a proper red bleed first.

Amazingly, seems the Neupogen wash we did as a trial last month did in fact improve the quality of my lining - so I only went and had a bloody (haha)

So we cancelled the hysteroscopy and cracked on with stims! The thought of being on contraception when my due date rolls around was too depressing for words

Not sure a BFN or another mc are preferable, but y'know...!!

We aren't too far apart, as if I do have a transfer it'll be in about 10 days. Hope Sept is lucky for us! X

bananafish81 Sun 28-Aug-16 12:14:18

* bloody (haha) period!!

alifemoreordinary Tue 06-Dec-16 14:40:07

Wondering how you're all getting on in the cycle saga?

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