AFC / eggs / embryos

[BipBippadotta]

Hello IVFers! Staring stims next week & my previously good AFC has dropped quite a bit . Now trying to get my head around the correlation between AFC, number of eggs collected, and number of embryos at the end.

Would anyone care to share their stats? Cheers!

[bananafish81]

Good luck Bip!

For my first cycle (Sept 15) my AFC was 5
I got 7 eggs, of which 6 were mature, 4 fertilised and looked great on day 3, none made it to blast

For my most recent cycle (Jan 16) my AFC was 10. I got 17 eggs, of which all were mature, 12 fertilised, 7 made it to blast - of which one is inside me, 4 are on ice, and the remaining 2 weren't good enough to freeze

I didn't have my bloods redone before my second cycle but my AMH before my first was 1.5. My FSH was a horrific 17.6 in July - though it bounced down to 9.5 in Aug.

I have no idea if all the DHEA and ubiquinol made the difference but I had significantly better quantity and quality on the second round. Hope you're doing OK - glad your clinic haven't buggered you around this month xxx

[BipBippadotta]

Thanks, bananafish! And I hear congratulations are in order! Hope you're feeling OK!

I tried DHEA once & so much hair fell out I had to stop . Feel like if I gave it another go I'd need a wig. But damn, maybe I should have just got a wig. Certainly cheaper than another go at IVF I this one's a dud!

[bananafish81]

Eek no deffo best to keep your barnet, that's less than ideal! Tbh I'll never know if the DHEA made any difference or not - the protocol was mostly the same both times but maybe the stims from the first cycle woke my sleepy ovaries up?

Are you going to be on short protocol? Excited for you!

And yes very very early days for me, thanks lovely. 5+2 and viability scan isn't till 7+1 - so for now, blood tests say I'm pregnant but we shall see what gives xxx

[BipBippadotta]

Yep, short protocol, but no ET (if we get that far) until mid-late April as I'm having PGS. Have had so many miscarriages now, I don't want them putting anything back in me unless I know for certain that it's got the right number of chromosomes.

Fingers crossed for your scan, banana! How are you feeling?

Anyone else for any AFC / egg / embryo ratios?

[Chattycat78]

To be honest I'm not sure how helpful it is trying to work out from afc how many embryos you'll get. Iv think it varies so much from person to person and depends on your response and stuff. When I did IVF my afc was 6 or 7, but unlike banana fish I only got 2 eggs, 1 embryo but it stuck and is now my one year old ds! I think quality matters far far more than numbers.

[BipBippadotta]

Yeah, quality is what I'm most worried about. I fear they will need to retrieve a shitload of eggs in order to find one that's not rotten. My AFC is 18 - down from 28 over the summer. Quantity was all I had going for me.

[Chattycat78]

An afc of 18 is brilliant though! Especially if you're mid to late thirties (sorry I'm guessing on this based on no info whatsoever!). Why are u worried about quality specifically? It does decline with age but do u have any reason to think your quality is worse than average? Even if it is, there are things you can do to help- eg co enzyme in massive doses.

[BipBippadotta]

I'm nearly 39. Egg reserve is good, but on average 80% of them will be duds by my age, and my losses don't bode well (2 mcs due to chromosome issues, plus 1 unexplained, & one healthy dd who died in childbirth).

Been taking massive doses of ubiquinol (COQ10) for 18 months to no avail (plus all the other stuff - NAC, myo-inositol, etc). We've had every test under the sun including karyotypes & the only thing they can find wrong with either of us is poor sperm morphology, which they tell me shouldn't be an issue as we've been conceiving naturally each time. So the general consensus is that my eggs must just be too old.

I was really hoping that if I managed to release an enormous bounty of eggs, there might be one or two good ones, so the sudden drop in numbers this time was a bit of a blow. Ugh. Can't wait for this all to be over.

[Chattycat78]

Oh god poor you. You've really been through it. Am espdciLly sorry to hear about the daughter who died in childbirth. How awful for you. Was that random or were there any reasons for it? Tell me to get lost if that's too personal. As for the old eggs thing, I see what you mean but you will have some decent ones left- it's just getting to them.

[BipBippadotta]

Thanks. Re: my daughter - the umbilical cord ruptured. It was wrapped around her neck 3 times. It was a freak accident, she'd just got tangled up. Pregnancy was textbook, low risk, perfectly healthy otherwise, no chromosomal issues, nothing. She was our first baby. It took 2 years to conceive her - and nothing but mcs since, so I'm just horribly afraid she arose from my last good egg, which makes it even more cruel that we lost her for no reason.

With any luck if we dig deep we can find one more good one. The consultant has proposed overstimulating me a bit in the hope of getting a good haul.

[Chattycat78]

You have been so so unlucky. I'm really sorry. Really you should be due some good luck on the back of what's happened to you so far. I think the fact you have good ovarian reserve is promising as you're likely to get a lot of eggs so more likely for some to be good ones. Have you done IVF before or is this your first go? What have the clinic said about your chances?

[BipBippadotta]

Thanks, Chatty. It's my first go at IVF. The clinic said I was a good candidate as I've carried to term before & have got pregnant naturally several times (which is why I get no help from the nhs) and that I was a good candidate for pgs because of my good afc (you need a lot of eggs for pgs). But they looked a bit nervous when my count was so much lower this time. And of course it's a private clinic so of course they're going to tell me my chances are good with the most expensive treatment... there's nothing for it now but to endure it and see what happens and try not to get my hopes up.

[bananafish81]

bip just to say we are all rooting for you. Everything crossable crossed xxx

[bananafish81]

Oh and re over stimulating - my consultant said deffo better to start higher and drop down based on response than the other way around. Sounds like your Dr is all over it xx

[BipBippadotta]

Thanks, Bananafish! I'm hoping they squeeze out my ovaries till the pips squeak.

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

Hey bip continuing my theme of being not very knowledgeable despite having done a round of ivf, I don't think I ever got told my AFC. Or my AMH. After stims I had 18 follicles, 11 eggs, 6 fertilised, 3 made it to blastocyst. As above, other things are at play - eg I'd never had a spontaneous bfp in three years of ttc and they thought that affected my chances as much / more than quantity of eggs as it's a quality thing

[Blondeshavemorefun]

cant rem my afc, but always told i have good eggs for my age, was 39 at 1st cycle

1 cycle 13 follicle 6 eggs fertilised, 5 died on day 3/ before blast/day 5, apart from one which was put back day 3 - failed

2 cycle 12 follicle 5 eggs fertilised, 2 ddnt make it and they placed 3 in me - all failed

3 cycle 10 follicle, 9 fertilised, 7 survived 5day blast - froze 3 day 5, and left 3 till day 6, 2 survived (froze) one didnt make it, and 1 transferred day 5 - failed

so have 5 frozen - 3 x 5 day and 2 x 6 day

1&2 done local and i thought they were good- as didnt know any diff ........ till did no 3

3 done abroad and much better then my local one, the whole package/drugs/their attention to detail etc

sure why got 5 left to freeze, all 5day + when didnt even get to day 5 with anyone of my eggs in uk

[Blondeshavemorefun]

ttc 10ish year, never had bfp

[Vixxfacee]

I had 28 eggs. 16 fertilised. Only 3 made it to day 5. I have 3 frozen and will have one put back in April hopefully.

Quality over quantity!

[Blondeshavemorefun]

i was told roughly that if lucky you get at least 1/4 left of what follicles you start with

each time roughly halves

ie 16 follicles, 8 fertilised , 4 embryos survived

not sure how true that is, but seems those who have lots of follicles dont have eggs in all

[GrinAndTonic]

AMH was 12 2.5 years ago. Can't remember recent result. No known fertility issues with either of us.
Have had three full IVF cycles.
#1 6 follicles 4 eggs collected 0 fertilised
#2 5 follicles 3 eggs collected 0 fertilised
#3 6 follicles 4 eggs collected 1 fertilised BFN
Now looking at donor embryos

[Blondeshavemorefun]

That's tough 2 cycles not having any fertilised :(
Would you try icsi so least you know sperm meets egg

A lot cheaper abroad for donor eggs

[GrinAndTonic]

That was with two lots of ICSI. The only time we got an embryo (it was only a four cell one and we knew nothing would happen) was a normal straight forward IVF.

Since we don't really know if it is eggs or sperm causing the problem (tests say there is nothing wrong with either) we are going to go with donor embryo. Trying eggs and/or sperm just seems like throwing more money away for diminishing returns and at least with an embryo we are skipping steps one and two and going straight for a BFP hopefully.

[BipBippadotta]

Wow, GrinAndTonic that's rotten luck. I wish you the best for donor embryo IVF.