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Pls recommend a London clinic - NK cells and high sperm defrag

(16 Posts)
allchatnicknamesgone Wed 09-Sep-15 11:08:20


Looking for a clinic with experience and knowledge of natural killer cells and DH with high sperm defragmentation. I've had a bad experience at the Lister so do not wish to go there, but is anyone else in the same boat whose has had a really positive experience with a clinic?

Thank you x

allchatnicknamesgone Thu 10-Sep-15 09:21:37


sparechange Thu 10-Sep-15 16:10:45

It depends what you want to do about the NK cell side of it. ARGC will 'treat' it by putting you on Humera (sp) for several months before treatment, and using things like intralipids.
They don't seem to be a top rated clinic for male factor issues, but will probably use PICSI/ICSI to deal with the defrag, as other clinics would.

The other option would be to go to a 'normal' clinic who wouldn't pre-treat the NK problem, but would use prednisolone and intralipids alongside 'standard' treatment. This would be a cheaper option, but you would't be necessarily going to the NK experts

allchatnicknamesgone Thu 10-Sep-15 16:41:00


We did want to go with imsi because we've done ices previously.

I'm very confused about the whole NK problem. I had the testing done at The Lister but left after my second consultation because of their treatment generally and mistakes. There is so much confusing literature about it.

My first round was at Guys was actually fine, but when it didn't work I went looking for more answers. I feel the service was good there, but don't feel they look outside the box if you know what I mean.

sparechange Thu 10-Sep-15 17:33:37

Have you explored PICSI? It's quite a new treatment, but would help with defrag issues
Can you go to a few open days and see how helpful they all are?

allchatnicknamesgone Fri 11-Sep-15 10:45:26

I had not heard of picsi - thank you.
Yep, been looking at open days, but they all seem quite a way off and you know how it is, you want everything tomorrow!
I think my bad experience at the Lister has made me wary that all these clinics are glossy on the outside and once they've hooked you in, you just haemorrhage money.
Everyone has good and bad things to say about every clinic so it's very hard to make an informed decision. The consultation fee's themselves are quite crippling & you really need one to come to a conclusion about the actual level of care.

RooibosTeaAgain Fri 11-Sep-15 18:59:42

For a private urologist I would recommend Dr Ramsay, in London. For treatment for NK cells either ARGC or Dr Nduwke at Zita West - if you read up about him you will find his expertise in immune issues ( which NK cells is part of). ARGC is intensive treatment, can be very costly. Worth going to free open evenings at both if they have them.

sparechange Sat 12-Sep-15 11:41:18

Out of interest, why do you suggest seeing a urologist? I thought the 'treatment' for it was icsi? are there now treatments to improve it beyond the usual list of vitamins and supplements?

RooibosTeaAgain Sat 12-Sep-15 14:22:33

Will pm you!

allchatnicknamesgone Mon 14-Sep-15 17:06:02

Thanks Rooibos - Dh is concerned that ARGC could be too financially crippling.
Can you let me know about the urologist thing too? The lister recommended DH seeing the same Dr Ramsey but we thought it may have just been another way to get fees from us. DH is on the proxeed, so we didn't think there was much else they could do.
Have you been through this yourself Rooibos?

sparechange Mon 14-Sep-15 17:38:48

We had the same concerns with ARGC... Everything we read on here and FF said you have to go in to it with no regard for money, because if they suggest a novel treatment or test, you HAVE to be in a position to say yes to all of it and have 100% trust in them to select your treatment protocols.

This approach wasn't for us, and not just for financial reasons. I'm happy to use experimental treatments (and have done) but want to know there is some sort of evidence base behind it before forking out several thousands of pounds on top of the already toppy treatment fees

RooibosTeaAgain Mon 14-Sep-15 20:53:56

Yes been through it ourselves.
I would not use ARGC due to costs but know people who have had great success there! I am in Dr George Nduwke's camp all the way ( not use humira but intralipids for Nk cells, well that is whatI have been prescribed in several pregnancies). Will pm you why Dr Ramsay! Lister should not get money out of him - he works NHS and private if you are London ( we travelled so private!)

What I will say about Dr Nduwke is he suggested we got as many of level 1 immune tests on NHS and he wrote to my GP and obstetrician when I had my dc to get as much of the meds I needed on prescription. Thanks to his name ( highly regarded by my hospital!) I got everything free from 8 weeks and in this pregnancy I got it from Bfp! He also has treated me from a distance, and his first comment on phone with second ( not successful) pregnancy was " congratulations, how is name of your child?"

he had long waiting lists as when he moved to London ( under Zita West banner) from a bigger chain he wanted to do it all, rather than being part of a chain and never knowing which doctor will see you.
Am sure there are others but his extensive knowledge of immune issues and compassionate approach is what I liked.

allchatnicknamesgone Tue 15-Sep-15 09:57:27

rooibus - thank you so much. Your post has been so helpful and given us loads of clarity. I'm going to speak with the Zita West clinic today about a consultation. I hope they will accept previous results though and not ask us to repeat everything.

DH also going to try and get a consultation with Dr Ramsey.

I've done all the bloods I can on the nhs. They weren't willing to try anything else because I didn't present any symptoms i.e. endo scratch.

By the way what is 'dc'? You wrote it in your above post.

Please DM me when you have time.

Thanks so much again. x

RooibosTeaAgain Tue 15-Sep-15 15:24:13

I do not know if ZW as such accepts previous results but certainly Dr N has done for us! as we got sperm situation sorted via Dr R this is natural conception ( with meds) and Dr N is prescribing my immune medications - private and NHS. I did not need to repeat any tests!!
Sorry dc is MN speak for child! I have a 3yr old.

Will pm you tonight - prepare yourself for an essay though!!

allchatnicknamesgone Tue 15-Sep-15 15:39:57

Omg - that post is a joy to read!!!! So you didn't even have to have ivf? That's amazing. I didn't know you could be prescribed stuff for your immune systems. I'd heard of prednisolone but I've been told I'd probably have to have intraplids.

Ah yes, of course I remember now what dc means! I have 7 year old.

I look forward to your essay and honestly you don't know how happy I am to read that. I know every case is different but I've been going round in circles not knowing which clinic to trust, but you've confirmed it for me. I've booked Dr N at Zita West. Unfortunately have to wait until end of Oct, but maybe means we can see Dr R first!


RooibosTeaAgain Tue 15-Sep-15 16:42:32

7yrs and ICSI for first dc!
nearly two years for second pregnancy, but 4 months after starting treatment from urology ( sadly a stillbirth)
2 months of trying for 3rd pregnancy but dh started regime 3 months before ttc!
we are both classed as needing fertility treatment.

Even with natural pregnancy I need: steroids, progesterone, levothyroxine ( low dose), aspirin, clexane and intralipids. All but intralipids I get on NHS due to results from immune tests. Without these medications. I miscarry by 5 weeks ( hence IVF alone failed).

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