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Women´s rights in Iraq

(19 Posts)
Papillon Thu 11-Aug-05 18:27:27

I have been reading abit about women in Iraq and want to share these articles

Conference Held on Women's Rights in Post-War Iraq
First Post-War Survey of Iraqi Women Shows Women Want Legal Rights; Dispels Notions That Women Believe Tradition, Culture Should Limit Their Participation in Government

Papillon Thu 11-Aug-05 18:34:41

Share the voices of the women in Iraq with your local newspaper

moondog Thu 11-Aug-05 18:37:57

The second one is interesting Papillon. Seems to suggest the contrary in a Guardian article on Tuesday in The Guardian in which they summed up Sunni,Shia and Kurdish positions on key issues.

(Hard to know who to believe thse days eh? Must say I admire your sang froid and serenity through all of our discussions!)

Papillon Thu 11-Aug-05 18:44:04

could you post the guardian link if possible please Moondog

Thank you for the compliment I am not a buddhist but try and follow their peaceful mentality in my life amongst other spiritual aspects of conundrum.

I just wrote to my editor!

moondog Thu 11-Aug-05 21:48:51

I'm a bit of a technophobe do I do a link to something in a real paper????

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 11:51:52

Thought you might have read it online - you read it in a newspaper do they still rustle

the guardian online but no idea where the article you mentioned would be!

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 12:01:10

Perhaps you meant this article

Deadline looms for Iraqis

Pressure increases on political leaders to agree constitution

moondog Fri 12-Aug-05 12:04:51

Ha ha Papillon! Yes despite being in a pretty remote place,we do get the Guardian the day after here. I like the real thing-doesn't feel the same as reading online!

This is the article-however in the paper there was also a useful cribsheet which listed the three main group's policies on key issues (eg women's rights,religion and so on.)

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 12:10:38

A cribsheet, would that not disturb the baby!

´Sunni negotiators are lobbying against a proposed federal state which would grant regional autonomy to Kurds in the north and Shias in the south.´

Switzerlands influence I assume... they are ´helping´ with the constitution and Switzerland political system is federalism which I think is a very good system even if somethings take more discussion and time.

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 12:15:21

THe US might believe this but I feel that the Islamic religion does not reflect the equal rights to women that this statement makes:

"The United States believes strongly that the Iraqi constitution should provide equal rights before the law for all Iraqis regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion or sect."

moondog Fri 12-Aug-05 12:51:02

Just went to check my mountain of newspapers,but unfortunately dh has taken that copy back to the office. It is circulated amongst the handful of expats here.

Guardian seemed to suggest that both the Sunnis and Muslims were planning tighter constraints on women's rights which is very bad news indeed,despite the wishes of the women polled in your cited articles. People do seem to forget that religion was not such a big issue in Saddam's Iraq.
Kurds seem less concerned. Here in eastern Turkey,the many I have met generally pride themselves on not being terribly religious. Despite it being a very conservative place,men and women still dance together (making close physical contact) at weddings,and the women's headscarves are (so I've been told) decorative rather than religious. They do of course ally themselves stroungly with Iraq,Iran and Syria,feeling largely let down by the Turks (which opens a whole new can of worms).

I hasten to add that i am not nearly as well read or analyticalas you. My observations are based on what I see from my dh's work,meeting people and day to day life. One of his tasks is to provide agricultural grants and training in the most remote regions,and they are having a hell of a job persuading the men to 'allow' women to be involved.

Yes,that US statement is......odd.

Must be really hard for the left wing press at present. They are caught between a rock and a hard place-keen to avoid being seen as anti Islamic,yet aware and indignant about the injustice of life for many Muslim women.

The label 'Islamaphobe' has become a very easy and lazy epithet to be applied to anyone with half a brain who dares to question Islam, in the same way that 'racist' is used against those concerned at the influx of illegal immigrants into Britain..

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 13:39:05

Thank you for more complimentary flattery - I am not that well read, would say its more a heart issue for me and that I am learning as I go along.

i really appreciate hearing what you have to say because you and your dh are living with people and not just reading it.
I thought women participated in agricultural lifestyles more?? Was that not mentioned on the multi-cultural thread? Will look later...

am off out to enjoy the sunshine now.

moondog Fri 12-Aug-05 13:56:25

Well,I thought the comment PD made about that was at odds with what I see,and what my dh's colleagues see. This is the poorest part of Turkey so yes,women are out toiling (ie you see them in the fields,unlike in town where 95% of shops,restaurants and businesses are run by men).

However,they do the hard unglamorous bit,they are not involved in planning,trading,decision making of any sort. This has my dh's colleagues in dspair-of course theyn understand the context and reasons,but they also know that if things are to change for the better (for everyone here) women have to be involved.

Dh, (by no means a 'new man'!) comes home despairing after a visit to yet another region where un/underemployed men while away the hours smoking,drinking tea and watching tv,while the women kill themselves doing all the work and raising families. The culture of long term unemployment and subsequent mental ill health has really struck here. At the height of the troubles,village men were basically either with the PKK or paid a retainer to act as government 'guards' in the village. These payments continue today. The people who wanted nothing to do with either side,fled to large towns (like the one wse live in) so were/are basically refugees.

Of course,this situation is not one that exists exclusively in Islamic countries! !8 years in the Pacific with my family showed me that it happens everywhere. Oppressed,marginalised men are bolstered by the fact that oppressed,marginalised women are even lower down in the pecking order.
Psychologically,we seem to feel the need that there is always someone worse off than us. (Fascinating and extremely poignant discussion to this effect on the special needs thread recently.)

Generally though,women are to busy looking after their children to worry about who is next down the list.

I find that of all organised faith costructs,Buddhism appeals most to me too.

Enjoy the sun-I'm doing the opposite,staying in until it gets a little cooler. Probably 36C today. I hate the heat!!

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 17:47:55

The Dalai Lama was in Switzerland last weekend but I did not know until all the tickets had sold out.

I was thinking thoughts along those lines when walking home that it is probably the women working in the fields, but I did not realise that the men often are sitting around!!

Machismo - it used to be the image of the hard man in NZ but apparently they are a dying breed. Or so I thought until I read of a New Zealand Aids Foundation study that states that NZ's macho culture 'bad for gays' .

´New Zealand's "macho culture" is to blame for the fact young gay men suffer five times the mental health problems of their heterosexual counterparts´

Wonder if the same applies to the women out working in the fields? Perhaps they have no time to think?

moondog Fri 12-Aug-05 18:22:15

No, Papillon,don't think that the women here have any time to think lofty thoughts. They're too busy surviviing.

Read the NZ article. Not surprised. Grew up in PNG to where many gay men from Australia and NZ fled for a bit of peace.
A macho Antipodean bloke can be pretty frightening!

Hope you had a nice day.

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 18:53:09

I had a a lovely day Moondog. This morning my midwife came to check the bump (I am 23 weeks) and said my blood pressure is nice and low... no wonder I am so chill

When the weather is good I like to take dd (22 months) to the free public pool.. loads of people, kids and good place to see friends or make more.
Now I am eating popcorn!
How was your day? Has it cooled down yet.. would not like being pregnant in those temps.

Yes, Antipodean males - well that ain´t all bad but I am not suprised that I married mostly non-kiwi (his dad is kiwi but has lived in CH most of his life) could not be bothered with macho.

Dh was just saying that a collegue of his has just been in India and its the women and children doing roadworks while the men ´supervise´- they were there during the recent monsoon flooding and as males were not allowed to help as they would be seen as wimps.

My parents have an orchard and I remember a man and wife coming to pick fruit, except she picked while he sat under the trees, because that kind of work was beneath him!

moondog Fri 12-Aug-05 20:46:54

I didn't realise you wre pg papillon! It's a good thing you're staying serene.

Where are you,UK? Not many free open air public pools there.

We had a great evening. Drove a little way around the lake where we live and found a restaurant with an open air pool and beer! Both of these are extremely rare in this part of ultra conservative Turkey. Lovely to watch the sun go down over the water,eat delicious food,be attended to by charming waiters and watch dd frolic and splash!

Papillon Fri 12-Aug-05 21:10:52

I live in Switzerland moondog - your dinner sounded lovely.


moondog Fri 12-Aug-05 21:35:57

Sleep well!

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