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Police officer who shot innocent man dead on holiday paid for by Met Police

(182 Posts)
edam Wed 27-Jul-05 13:42:50

BBC Online is saying the police officers who shot Jean Menendes, the innocent man killed in Stockwell, are on holiday at our expense.

"The officers have been moved to non-firearm duties for the duration of the IPCC probe, expected to take several months.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "An officer has had a break paid for by the Metropolitan Police, authorised by the commissioner, to allow him to take his wife and family away from the family home."

One of the other officers is already on a family holiday."

Full story here

Wonder what everyone thinks? I can see why they are on leave - but not sure Met (we) should be paying for the holiday itself. Wonder if the Met, or the Home Office, will be contributing to the man's funeral expenses - it won't be cheap to repatriate his body to Brazil. Or his father's cancer treatment - apparently he was sending money home to help his family. If we are paying for the holiday, don't we equally have an obligation to pay funeral expenses?

Mum2girls Wed 27-Jul-05 13:48:02

hmmmm...understand your sentiment - not sure that I'd want anything to do with the money of people responsible for killing a member of my family.

The guys who shot this man aren't necessarily those who gave the order to shoot - but they are the ones who have to live with it - and it must be a huge responsibility - and one that you can hardly train for.

Agree that the UK should obviously repatriate his body.

SenoraPostrophe Wed 27-Jul-05 13:55:07

a holiday now is much cheaper for taxapyers than a nervous breakdown and subsequent early retirement.

there doesn't seem to be any question that the man acted out of line - I feel sorry for him (though I have decided I am against the shoot to kill policy and think questions must be answered).

edam Wed 27-Jul-05 14:28:04

I appreciate your pragmatism, SP, but I was genuinely shocked by this. It seems like a reward for getting something so disastrously wrong that an innocent man has been killed. Not that I necessarily blame the individual officer - he may well have been misled by bad intelligence, there could easily be other factors or people involved; equally he may be a trigger happy nutter, who knows? - but it does seem a strange signal to send. Is it really appropriate for the Met to be seen to be rewarding one of its own instead of doing anything for the actual victim and his grieving relatives?

oatcake Wed 27-Jul-05 14:32:13

It's a terrible situation, but if I was one of the passengers on that tube and the man who was running from armed police was wanting to get into my carriage...

well, I don't know what to say really...

munz Wed 27-Jul-05 14:32:38

been talking to my DH about this and he's of the view the army have a shoot to kill policy as well, but as this man's police, his fear is that if a soldier killed someone in these circumstances he's be in prision already and up on court marshal but this police man isn't. whist I understand his point of view - ie what makes the police so special they don't have the same rules as the rest of us, but by the same notion the poor guy can'tr win if he shot the innocent bloke he's obviously in trouble but if he was guilty and didn't he'd also be in trouble.

i'm not sure we should be paying for the holiday - i'd agree with a suspension on full pay thou. but yes we should really pay tomward the funeral if we've paid for the holiday.

lucy5 Wed 27-Jul-05 14:32:55

I feel very sorry for that officer, he has to live with what he's done. I am against shoot to kill and feel that this officer was a puppet. He carried out orders from above probably to put the frighteners on people but they got it seriously wrong.

mancmum Wed 27-Jul-05 14:35:52

of course we should pay compensation for the innocent victim in all this... but I can not believe that you are questioning the right of the men involved in this to some paid time off ... FFS these police men were chasing after a man that for all they knew could be just about to blow himself and them up... they were doing this to try to make our lives safer so we don't get a repeat of 9/11/ or 7/7 -- OK mistakes will be made but what would you suggest -- the police arms themselves with truncheons and strong words against these terrorists?

Can you imagine how awful they must feel about killing an innocent man... so lay off them unless you think you can do better...

assumedname Wed 27-Jul-05 14:36:55

The guy could be sitting in his hotel room having a nervous breakdown.

Just because he's on holiday doesn't necessarily mean he's on the beach with a beer in his hand.

Chandra Wed 27-Jul-05 14:40:55

On holiday? is this a reward for his mistake?.

Though I very much agree the policeman was only following orders and he could not be sure this man was not a terrorist, I think that a suspension in full pay should have sufficed. after all, how many policemen do get this "reward" after shooting a man, rightfully or not? I would be horrified if that is the norm...

QueenOfQuotes Wed 27-Jul-05 14:41:08

I'm 100% against the shoot to kill, and strongly feel that whoever is found to be ultimately responsible for the mans death to be punished accordingly.

HOWEVER, given the strong feelings from many members of the public against the man who actually pulled the trigger is must be incredibly hard for him to be at home. Whether he 'broke' rules or whether he didn't the poor man is probably in a lot of shock.....I should imagine even those armed police who legitimately kill someone feel awful about it afterwards. It may be well what they're trained to do, but going home to your wife and kids knowing you killed someone (rightly or wrongly) must be immensely difficult.

It doesn't even say where he's gone - he may have gone to Bognor for all we know!

munz Wed 27-Jul-05 14:41:28

I'm not saying he can't have the break or time off but do the met have to pay for the holiday on top of his wages?

by the same token thou if compensation's paid to the police man then by the same notion it should be paid to the family, or I can see a lot of ill feeling.

mancmum Wed 27-Jul-05 14:43:09

to use the word REWARD in this context is hugely inappropriate and totally insensitive...

how do you imagine this poor man feels killing an innocent man.. unless you are prepared to put your life on the line for your country I think you should keep your ill thought out comments to yourself

oatcake Wed 27-Jul-05 14:44:55

the guy was running from armed police! I understand his visa to this country had run out but you don't run from armed police, surely?

Again, if it were one of you guys on the carriage watching this man run on, wouldn't you be reassured that we have a shoot to kill policy?

throckenholt Wed 27-Jul-05 14:44:59

I think it is more likely a "suspended from duties pending investigation" type thing. And probably they have moved them from the family home so that their identity is not connected with the incident.

It must be an awful time for anyone involved with the whole thing. Mistakes happen - but given the risks they were dealing with that is inevitable. .

What happens with the unfortunate victim is not realted to this, but obviously everything reasonable should be done for him and his family.

Am I right in thinking he was here on an expired visa ?

QueenOfQuotes Wed 27-Jul-05 14:45:56

"the guy was running from armed police! "

we don't (as yet) know whether the chase started before or after the uniformed armed police were involved.

And besides - that's actually got nothing to do with this thread

assumedname Wed 27-Jul-05 14:46:38

As I understand it, the guy was running from armed police with WIRES HANGING FROM HIS POCKET.

QueenOfQuotes Wed 27-Jul-05 14:48:02

assumed - hadn't heard that one before now........

and yes apparently he had an expired visa......but not sure what that's got to do with a police officer being on holiday either [confused]

hunkermunker Wed 27-Jul-05 14:49:09

What if what if what if...

100% against shoot to kill, QoQ? Why?

hunkermunker Wed 27-Jul-05 14:49:41

AN, have heard the same. He was apparently working illegally, so hid his tools under his jacket, along with wires.

QueenOfQuotes Wed 27-Jul-05 14:50:32

hunker - I'm not going into it on this thread, already expressed my opinion on several other threads where it was discussed - otherwise this thread is going to end up being about something completely different to the original post

hunkermunker Wed 27-Jul-05 14:51:00

Just think it's not poss to be against it in all circs.

Caligula Wed 27-Jul-05 14:51:08

I don't mind my taxes going on him having a holiday. But I also think that our taxes should go on repatriating the Brazilian man's body home.

And I do hate it when people who tell other people to shut up because they disagree with them on an open discussion forum, Mancmum. Everyone has the right to discuss this and comment on it, whatever their job.

Chandra Wed 27-Jul-05 14:52:27

Mancmum unfortunately I grew up in a place where American police could shot dead as rabbits my conationals even when they were in my own country. I know for a fact that many didn't hold life respect. The policy of the American police was only to transer their misbehaving policemen to another border state where they didn't even face more legal action. I know this is not America (though oif this is true this holiday remains me very much of those "under the table" policies) but I also have learned by now that the idea of the nice policeman remorsefully sitting at his home may or MAY NOT be true. Obviously if you have been on my situation or had worked with the refugees I worked with you wouldn't have such a pink idea of police and may feel a bit more sympathetic to the family who may feel outraged at hearing such news.

munz Wed 27-Jul-05 14:53:22

yes cal totally agree it does annoy me when ppl are told to be quite/justify their views on here.

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