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Been mulling this over and it doesn't bear thinking about...

(30 Posts)
soapbox Wed 13-Jul-05 20:16:20

About the bombs!

On Sunday (so very soon after the bombing) Former Metropolitan Police chief Sir John Stevens has said the London bombers are "almost certainly" British.

Today there was a leak from some French Minister saying that the terrorists had previously been arrested but let go in order to catch the ring leaders. This was denied by the Foreign and Home office.

The speed with which they cracked this also makes me suspicious!

I'm just astonished that Sir John made that comment as early as Sunday and of course was proved right.

I have this horrible feeling that they knew who these terrorists were and what they were going to do.

Am I making 2+2=5 or does anyone else think that it all doesn't quite add up? If I'm right then some people paid a very high price for the 'wait and see' approach

Jimjams Wed 13-Jul-05 21:00:17

No, the knew because they found documents at the site and the injuries (decapitation basically) suggested suicide bombers. Also one of the bombers was reported as missing early on, so they were able to piece it all together quickly.

emmatmg Wed 13-Jul-05 21:18:04

Soapbox, I was saying the same to DH last night.

I not sure why but I'm very suspicious of the speed that this has been solved.

I can't work out why they(the bombers) would leave such an obvious trail(not being a police officer might be something to do with it) but I worry that this is just the tip of the iseberg and they (the police) might not see the bigger picture because they have found the "prime suspects" so easily.

However, my rational mind knows this is ridiculous and the Police will look beyond these people and see the bigger pictiure, if it's there.
I still worry though, I'm born worrier.

soapbox Wed 13-Jul-05 21:37:42

JJ - you could very well be right - but although they knew it was suicide bombers by Sunday, how would the previous commisioner of police be so sure they were British at that point?

The French Ministers comment today was also preplexing.

Like Emma it all just seems too easy to me!

They knew where they lived, that they'd hired cars to go to Luton where they'd taken the train and just happened to find them on cctv, from the thousands of hours of footage there must be, etc etc etc.

Oh well - we'll never know one way or another I don't suppose. So will move on to other things to occupy my mind

SenoraPostrophe Wed 13-Jul-05 21:38:36

Remeber that not everything is reported.

It's perfectly possible that john stevens didn't have the faintest clue whether or not the bombers were british when he said that - but it was always quite likely and he may have said it in order to try to prevent reprisals against assylum seekers or something.

As to the speed with which the enquiry has gone - this is one of the biggest enquiries the country has seen. I would expect results pretty quickly. Also why would suicide bombers go to great lengths to hide their identities? they don't generally.

I'm not really worried. the only slight niggle I have is to do with having seen Arlington Road recently - anyone who's seen it will know what I mean, but if I say it I'll sound glib.

SenoraPostrophe Wed 13-Jul-05 21:39:36

soapbox - just happened to find them!! they viewed 2,500 hours of cctv footage. of course they found them.

hunkermunker Wed 13-Jul-05 21:40:48

Scenes of crime are amazing though - please don't underestimate what the police can find and piece together.

soapbox Wed 13-Jul-05 21:45:21

SP - glib or not please tell me about Arlington Road.

tiredemma Wed 13-Jul-05 21:46:30

Id like to think that all of the possible resources were ploughed immediatly into finding clues as to who these people were.
Dont forget that they would have mobile phone records.Documents and credit cards were found amongst the bombers belongings, a credit card would of been needed in order to hire the car etc etc... all pieces would link, and the police would know where to look.

only thing that does make me think "hmmmm" is the comments by the french minister today.

Hope its not the case that they were known, to think that it could of been avoided doesnt bear thinking about.

what about arlington rd SP? im intruiged now???

PrincessPeaHead Wed 13-Jul-05 21:48:30

apparently documents are always left by suicide bombers so that they can be identified so that the community knows they martyred themselves and are going straight to paradise. which is the point of being a suicide bomber apparently. the ticket to paradise I mean.

PrincessPeaHead Wed 13-Jul-05 21:49:18

also I have a friend who is a counterterrorism and security expert at gchQ in cheltenham who says that ALL available resources have been thrown at this, he has never seen anything like it.

hunkermunker Wed 13-Jul-05 21:50:05

PPH, had heard that too re martyrs. Charles Clarke has refuted in the strongest terms the claim that the suicide bombers had been arrested previously.

Eve Wed 13-Jul-05 21:51:28

..I was talking to my Mum about this, and 1 of the arguements constantly rolled out by Labour to support Identify Cards is...prevention of terrorism and acts such as this.

....but throughout this whole situation there hasn't been a single mention of identify cards and the need for them!

thats made me think they knew fairly early on they were British and the identify card wouldn't have prevented it.

PrincessPeaHead Wed 13-Jul-05 21:52:23

french minister has now said "oh sorry, I didn't get it from charles clarke, someone else must have told me".

with an insouciant gallic shrug no doubt (hey, KS, look over here, twice in one day!)

soapbox Wed 13-Jul-05 21:55:27

PPH - I'm sure that you are right. I imagine that they are throwing all that they've got at solving this.

HM - Charles Clerk would have to say that wouldn't he. He couldn't very well say 'opps, yes we did arrest them, silly us' could he!!

Probably just being overly sceptical. Lets see what the next few days bring!

SP - still want to know about Arlington Road - please [said in a whiny voice]!

Janh Wed 13-Jul-05 21:57:59

And one set of parents rang up because their son wasn't answering his phone - was he one of the ones who'd been to Pakistan recently? They must have considered all along that it could have been suicide bombers, in which case they would look very carefully at any young Muslim victims.

hunkermunker Wed 13-Jul-05 21:58:47

Yes, of course he would say that - am not that gullible

ID cards wouldn't have stopped this at all.

Janh Wed 13-Jul-05 21:59:13

And I heard that 2 of them had been in trouble with the police before (one of them was a bad 'un at school?) but not for anything like this.

Janh Wed 13-Jul-05 22:02:41

AND I would take anything said by French officials with a huge pinch of salt right now.

soapbox Wed 13-Jul-05 22:03:51

But Jahn - its not the kind of thing you would make up about something like this is it, even allowing for French sensitivities right now????

Janh Wed 13-Jul-05 22:14:53

"A French spokesman later said Mr Sarkozy had been speaking from his own information and not quoting Mr Clarke.

France's interior minister had not been referring to any of the four suspected bombers but to other members of a network to which they belonged, the spokesman added."

From BBC

Maybe he misunderstood.

foxinsocks Wed 13-Jul-05 22:15:11

there have been issues with that French minister and Clarke in the past

The reason they found them so quickly is as pph said, they wanted to be found - they left their documents on themselves so they were found at the scene - that plus the fact the family had reported the bus bomber missing meant they put 2 and 2 together

The hire car was a lucky break - the police were searching the house and there was a knock on the door and it was the bloke from the hire company asking where his car was (this is how it was told on the news when the story first broke)

aloha Wed 13-Jul-05 22:19:34

I too understand that a/suicide bombers have very distinctive injuries (decapitation) so they would have found them quickly. Also they were covered in ID so they could get the 'credit' for their act. After that, I suspect it was all pretty easy, given that every security officer, policeman, MI5 official etc would be onto this.
And it was always quite likely they would be British, like the shoe bomber Richard Reid.
I pity that boy's family so much. To learn in one day that your beloved son has died, and that he is a murderer must be appalling. They clearly had no idea.

hunkermunker Wed 13-Jul-05 22:21:21

Yes, also at least one family reported their son missing.

Cannot imagine the horror they must have felt, as you say, Aloha

soapbox Wed 13-Jul-05 22:22:37

I know - absolutely heartbraking

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