Call to end "middle class" benefits

[AtheneNoctua]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8319646.stm

"It defines middle class as a household where every adult has an annual income of at least £15,000 and every child £5,000. "

[StealthPolarBear]

hmm

[notyummy]

Not sure about the income definition, but frankly given the state of the public finances, I'm amazed that none of the big parties has grasped the nettle .....oh, hang on...is there a general election soon??

Whilst I like getting child benefit, we as a household don't need it.

[wahwah]

There is no way that we could maintain our slight semblance of lower middle class life on £40 grand a year in the SE.

[southeastastra]

as we are always just over in these cases that'll be ours up the swanny

[AtheneNoctua]

I think if they want to give less than they should think about taking less. Tax deductable childcare anyone?????

[THEFRINGE]

If that happens, I'll have to give up my PT job and claim a lot more from the state. But then benefits for everyone will be cut left right and centre through in the next 5 years, so maybe not.

Now is not the time to reliant on benefits - I feel for those that are, expect massive cuts

[THEFRINGE]

"the welfare system also has to improve for the poorest, the report says"

ROFL - does this man actually know the conservatives will be running the country for the next five years?

The poor will be the least of their worries

[notyummy]

Thing is - the country is nearly bankrupt. They can't afford to give less and take less...they need to give less and take more!

They would also need to think carefully about the income thresholds - because if causes people to go on to benefits (which ones would it entitle you to THEFRINGE?) then it it propbably wont save money in the long run.

It would make little overall difference to some income brackets and I would fully support its removal.

[notyummy]

PS - What I mean is, I would fully support child benefit being removed from some (i.e middle/higher income) brackets.

Everyone's definition of that is different I guess. I would see it as households on more than roughly 30-40k a year.

[notyummy]

Really Riven? Bloody hell, thats quite shocking.

[AtheneNoctua]

Maybe they should jack up the interest rates on all those bank loans they handed out at OUR expense.

The thing is they issue these hedlines and at first you think oh middle class benefits. Yes, they could live without a few bob here and there. But, then you see some earning £15k is middle class and I think there a blardy stupid idea becasue not everyone on say £15 - £30k is going to give up work cause thy can't afford to go to it anymore. And now you have a whole lot more people to support on less than £15k.

And what is this garbage about children who earn £5k. Do other people's children have jobs? Mine don't. HAve I missed something? Should I be sending my kids out to work?

[ABetaDad]

I don't have a problem with the benefits being removed to middle class people as long as there is an increase in the personal allowance tax free band from the current £6035 per annum up to £10k for an adult and £5k for each child. Most importantly, I want this to tax free personal allowance to be transferable between members of a family.

That would mean a family of 2 adults and 2 kids could earn £20k but pay no tax. I want this so that people who do work on low wages get a decent incentive to go out to work and it acknowledges the extra cost of having DCs and acknowledges that where one parent gives up work to look after DCs or takes parental leave then the other parent (man or woman) gets more of their wage to take home.

I also want to reduce the 'benefits trap'. Just raising benefits at the bottom end but taxing people more heavily and removing benefits the minute people go back to work leaves it not worth working for many people. I also think that chldcare costs should be permitted as a possible write off against tax. Going out to work for someone with DCs involves a heavy cost and all but the most highly paid can afford nursery/nanny care.

Yes lets have reform but we need a total reform of all taxes and benefits not just piecemeal. We need to give people an incentive to earn and not penalise them for bothering to go out to work, form a family and have children who will be future tax payers.

We know very well that children who grow up in families that have at least one parent working are likely to be better educated, n better health and actually work themsleves when they become adults.

[AtheneNoctua]

Sorry about the terrible typing. Meant to say "...now everyone on say £15 - £30k is going to give up work..."

[fishie]

we don't qualify for tax credits. i wouldn't say we are well off (i think our household income is pretty much the definition in the op) and we pay around £170 a week in childcare too. it is a myth, this middle class getting benefits thing.

and re rationing it, starts to get very difficult when you look at the difference in house prices regionally. should someone in london get the same as someone in the rhondda?

[stillfrazzled]

I can see the case for people who don't actually need it not getting child benefit (for me it's useful but we'd manage without).

I am really worried about the maternity pay suggestion, though - without that, I'd have had a very short period of mat leave (maybe only a couple of months) and gone back, with associated threats to successful BF etc, OR given up work, which would have put us in line to claim other benefits.

Seems like a daft policy when they want women in work, TBH.

[ShauntheSheep]

"It defines middle class as a household where the total income equates to £15,000 a year for each adult and £5,000 per child."

Even in the south east I think that is moving towards middle/upper middle class. We are obv the working poor then and managing pretty ok I think.

[THEFRINGE]

If it pays more or a similar amount to stay at home rather than work then most people will choose to stay at home.

Which is why this is a daft report.

The conservatives are going to focus their efforts on getting people back into work, these ideas do the opposite, which is why it's a daft report that will be ignored.

They would need to up the income levels for it to work - and can we really see the conservatives hitting the upper middle classes, they are the ones who vote for them after all.

No, in five years time, when we look back we will see it will be the benefits and the services (eg surestart) that affect the poorest that have been hit hardest.

[notyummy]

Athene - they are defining it as TOTAL income i.e two adults and 2 kids = £15k per adult and £5 k per child (not earned - just as a method of calculating income) so that family would be defined as middle class if they earned £40K. If they had 3 kids it would be £45k, if they had 1 then it would £35k.