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Pope setting up sub-branch of Catholicism for disaffected Anglicans

(75 Posts)
Bleh Tue 20-Oct-09 16:12:30

Here. Wow.

OrmIrian Tue 20-Oct-09 16:16:16

Ooh a Bigots Branch! grin

<S'OK was only joking>


AMumInScotland Tue 20-Oct-09 16:20:46

Well, if it means the CofE can get on and have women bishops, without the whole hoo-ha about alternative oversight, then I'm happy to wave them off!

But I suspect the people who'll be unhappy will be the RCs who are having to accept that some people are allowed to be "RC-lite", and not fully have to accept the normal doctrines and practices of te RC church.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 20-Oct-09 16:23:30

Well, I suppose the Catholic church poaching Anglicans is at least better than the former practise of roasting them (and v-v, of course).

OrmIrian Tue 20-Oct-09 16:42:06

Oh dear grimma! grin <groan>

BadgersPaws Tue 20-Oct-09 17:03:35

I wonder how the "RC-Lite" will handle something like birth control?

Will it be OK for RC-Lite followers to use condoms because they don't want to have too many children to fit into their 3 bedroom house?

Will it continue to not be OK for RC-Max followers in Africa to use condoms because they don't want to die?

ZZZenAgain Tue 20-Oct-09 17:10:45

I think it's been brewing for a long time (probably since the ordination of women priests)with Anglican priests approaching Rome, the Pope is just responding to that -and nothing much will change IYAM. A lot of Anglicans converted to RC after that. People have converted from RC to Anglicanism in the same time.

It's not like it is a different God, is it? They get on alright together at the "top" if you ask me. I don't think there is any real inter-denominational hostility there.

Dumbledoresgirl Tue 20-Oct-09 17:12:11

Spot on post AMumInScotland.

Many years ago, well before women priests etc, I converted to Catholicism and I can well remember the priest telling me that Catholicism was not a church you could pick and choose parts of. The way he described it was if you join a club, you have to accept the rules. At the time, I was happy to accept all the rules. I am now lapsed but still feel a member of the church and I do think if you want to join, you should join the whole thing, not some subgroup.

Bleh Tue 20-Oct-09 17:12:17

Interesting question Badgers. I don't know if they've really thought this through, or were they just going "damn, we need more peeps" and came up with this idea without really thinking it through.

ZZZenAgain Tue 20-Oct-09 17:14:19

they are all supposed to be striving for a kind of unity - not that there is ever much evidence of that but in theory that's the idea. There is just one church of Jesus Christ and various denominations of it but it sounds at times like there are hundreds of different churches all so wildly different from each other.

Bleh Tue 20-Oct-09 17:19:24

I'm not really knowledgable about modern Christianity, but is it becoming more united in Europe, in the face of growing numbers of Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics etc.? At the time of the Reformation, there was effectively no real alternative or challenging religion in Europe, so it was probably more likely for there to be a split (rather than stay together in the face of a common enemy so to speak).

BadgersPaws Tue 20-Oct-09 17:22:19

I can see some interesting times ahead over birth control.

Basically they'll be saying that it's better for their African followers to die than use a condom but that it's better for their RC-Lite followers to use a Condom than accept women Bishops.

Are women Bishops therefore worse than death?

ZZZenAgain Tue 20-Oct-09 17:23:53

no, it's not becoming more united but different churches have a different way of responding to public opinion/lifestyle choices for one thing so in that respect for one thing, they are moving further and further apart. Christianity seems to have something inherent in it that favours splintering IYAM. I don't know what. Maybe it is to do with the emphasis on having a personal relationship with Jesus which leads everyone to believe they - and only they know what's what.

When you get right down to the bottom of it, without all the frills, they should have the same message but most of the time you can easily track down rabid inter-christian debate on any subject. The voice of reason appears sometimes though. It is a bit weird.

ZZZenAgain Tue 20-Oct-09 17:25:48

the voice of reason is not weird

morningpaper Tue 20-Oct-09 17:26:43

If you are an anglo-catholic vicar, now's the time to get a vasectomy

Bleh Tue 20-Oct-09 17:29:24

That's another thing - would the Anglican vicars going over have to divorce their wives and become celibate? How will they deal with that? And if they don't, will there then be more pressure from RC priests to be able to marry?

MaryBS Tue 20-Oct-09 17:31:16

Any Anglican priests that go over are allowed to be married, although currently they are not given their own parish. There are many married RC priests who converted, in fact its probably what's keeping the RCC alive in East Anglia. Different matter if you're a married Anglican bishop who wants to convert - you don't get to become a bishop.

MaryBS Tue 20-Oct-09 17:31:54

But if their wife dies, they cannot remarry. They are not expected to be in a celibate marriage.

SpookyScattyKatty Tue 20-Oct-09 17:34:53

morningpaper that doesn't make sense.

1. Catholic's do not have 'Vicar's' only Priests.

2. There is no such thing as an Anglo-Catholic Priest, once you become a Catholic Priest you are just a Catholic!

3. I find it really offensive for you to make jokes about Priets and vasectomy. IMO a real Priest would have no such need.

I find it odd that to to make a joke about Islam is a big no no but Catholicism is everyones favourite joke hmm

morningpaper Tue 20-Oct-09 17:35:26

What Mary says

Actually, the Catholic church basically doesn't recognise their ordination, so they will have to be re-ordained

It's a blardy mess

morningpaper Tue 20-Oct-09 17:36:49

Spooky, this move is directed (primarily) at Anglo-Catholic clergy. Most of them are married. Anglo-Catholic clergy are part of the Church of England, who consider themselves part of the universal Catholic tradition. It is these who are being provided with a fast-track into the (Roman) Catholic church structure. HTH.

AMumInScotland Tue 20-Oct-09 17:37:50

I can't find much detail about this anywhere yet, but there are vague statements about thow they will be allowed to keep parts of the Anglican tradition which does not conflict with RC teaching. So, on that basis, they would be under the same rules about issues like birth control as RCs always are (which not all decide to obey...)

There is also talk that they are to be allowed their own "oversight", so effectively there would be an "RC Lite" bishop, who would be able to ordain candidates, and possibly also including married candidates. The CofE married priests who transferred before haven't had to divorce or become celibate. But this would widen that little chink a bit further.

But RC priests marrying is a massive practical issue, not just theolological but also practical - housing, income etc would have to be changed massively.

morningpaper Tue 20-Oct-09 17:45:12

Some cynics have suggested that this move is to help a little with the current priest-crisis in the RC church... they currently have absolutely ENORMOUS parishes.

There isn't any clarity about the structure - apparently Rowan only found out two days ago (he has been royally shafted) but I SUPPOSE that they will allow the three (?) 'flying bishops' over to Rome to act as Bishops, otherwise I don't see what their alternate oversight will be.

MaryBS Tue 20-Oct-09 19:13:25

At least one of the flying bishops is married.

Many Anglo-Catholics (including me) are NOT opposed to the ordination of women anyway.

Although they are re-ordaining Anglican priests, I don't see how they can say their original ordination was not valid - given they are making a special case for Anglican priests. If your average married Anglican went over, he wouldn't be allowed to be ordained!

morningpaper Tue 20-Oct-09 19:25:54

Rumour has it (i.e. Damian Thompson of the Telegraph who does tend to make up random things) that they may make provision to ordain married lay AC men

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