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Attempted rapist wins right to transfer to women's prison

(360 Posts)
dittany Fri 04-Sep-09 16:53:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kathyis6incheshigh Fri 04-Sep-09 16:59:05

I think there are problems with just simply accepting people who have had sex change operations as women - I'm with Germaine Greer on this.
I don't have the slightest problem with people being transgender, or wanting live as whatever sex they feel most comfortable in, but given that your gender is experienced through your body, the idea that it is as straightforward as someone being 'a woman trapped in a man's body' and all you need is some medical operations to right the error, seems like an oversimplification.
And in the case of someone who has actually committed rape, well, that does seem to present certain problems....

dittany Fri 04-Sep-09 17:05:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Callisto Fri 04-Sep-09 17:14:35

I'm very dubious that a 'woman trapped in a man's body' would commit an act of such violence as attempted rape against another woman.

kathyis6incheshigh Fri 04-Sep-09 17:14:48

I agree Dittany.
I don't have a problem with men who've had gender reassignment surgery using women's toilets, attending women's colleges, etc, but this is something else.
I wonder which bit of him committed the rape - the woman inside the body or the male body on the outside? hmm

scaredoflove Fri 04-Sep-09 17:15:32

if she has been on hormone therapy (oestrogen and androgens blockers) to start her gender reassignment, then (I think) she will not be capable of an erection and libido is mostly reduced. That would take some of the risk away

ilovemydogandmrobama Fri 04-Sep-09 17:20:23

He/she will be in seclusion, at great cost, which is part of the argument on behalf of the prison service.

beaniebgivesupontheDMarsery Fri 04-Sep-09 17:21:16

While I support anyone who has gender reasignment surgery (And have personally know two people who have) I find it hard to support the transfer of this person to a female prison considering they have attempted to rape another woman.

What to do though?
Maybe they should llow them to have the surgery sooner than later. However, as you can still rape without a penis, I think it would be dangerous to allow her to be anywhere near the other inmates unless she has somehow shown she has been rehabilitated. sad

GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob Fri 04-Sep-09 17:24:47

God, tricky one

I find the idea of a rapist being let loose among women prisoners pretty horrifying - it's unjust, and not right, as well as potentially dangerous

but on the other hand if this person is in every meaningful respect female (and I don't know enough to say whether s/he is or not) it seems intolerably cruel - and also quite dangerous - to lock her up with violent men

I think segregation is the only answer, although that isn't very humane either in the long-term

the cost of her keep shouldn't be a factor in the decision-making process - that is simply part of the running costs of a civilised society IMO

dittany Fri 04-Sep-09 17:28:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UnquietDad Fri 04-Sep-09 17:29:25

From my understanding of pre-operative transexuals - which is admittedly very patchy - I understood that they were people who had started having the counselling, hormone therapy etc. but not actually having the reassignment surgery. I've been told it's actually difficult to have consensual penetrative sex in this zone, let alone anything else.

The logic of it does seem a little worrying, but if the person is legally a woman, I suppose they have to apply consistency. And the solitary confinement issue does appear to be a way of addressing the concerns.

(Of course, it's worth pointing out that men who are convicted of raping men are put in prisons with men all the time.)

GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob Fri 04-Sep-09 17:31:31

That's true UQD, about male-male rapists

Are they segregated from other prisoners?

BitOfFun Fri 04-Sep-09 17:35:16

I think she might have a greater understanding of what it's like to be in fear of male sexual violence after spending time in a male prison while appearing somewhat effeminate, actually. And I can't see most rapists queueing up for a full sex change because this one has "got away with it", just to be around's obviously a pretty unusual scenario, and not one that is necessarily too concerning, tbh.

kathyis6incheshigh Fri 04-Sep-09 17:43:25

Even with the hormones decreasing sex drive, s/he will still be physically stronger than a woman, and rape is a crime of violence as well as sex (and this person was also convicted of manslaughter, so is clearly a very violent person).

dittany Fri 04-Sep-09 17:48:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scaredoflove Fri 04-Sep-09 17:50:34

transgender is not a mental illness and as I said before, she will not be able to use her penis for anything other the peeing. androgen blockers block testosterone and will lower/remove libido so in that respect will lessen any risk to the other women.

Many women in prison are also dangerous, she will be with her peers in that respect

Once the gender reassignment goes ahead, she will no longer have a penis, so will not be able to rape with it though I don't think the penis is the problem in rape, it's the power and violence trip rapists want

AspasiaManos Fri 04-Sep-09 17:51:18

UQD makes a good point when he says "men who are convicted of raping men are put in prisons with men all the time."

dittany Fri 04-Sep-09 17:54:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scaredoflove Fri 04-Sep-09 18:00:06

"He was serving an automatic 'two strikes' life sentence for manslaughter 'by reason of provocation of his male partner"

Not sure the manslaughter side of this is totally relevant, as it looks like maybe he was a victim of domestic violence

The hormones also redistribute muscle/fat ratio so she wouldn't be as 'strong as man' anymore, her strength will be comparable to a woman of the same size

I really don't see a risk

StewieGriffinsMom Fri 04-Sep-09 18:08:39

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dittany Fri 04-Sep-09 18:08:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Reallytired Fri 04-Sep-09 18:09:54

I don't think that this man/woman is deserving of the additional funding. Being in jail is a curtailment of freedom. I think its quite fair to curtail his freedom to live as a woman.

It is forgotten that he has committed some very serious crimes. He never respected his victims' rights.

He is lucky in being allowed to live. A lot of countries would have executed him along ago. I would rather that 80K was spent on prisoners and general rehabiltitation.

StewieGriffinsMom Fri 04-Sep-09 18:11:18

Message withdrawn

Besom Fri 04-Sep-09 18:12:26

I'm just reading it again and I can't see where it says he/she raped a woman. It just says attempted rape, or am I wrong?

scaredoflove Fri 04-Sep-09 18:12:48

but she being sent into a prison, not the local women's institute coffee morning, there will be many violent women there already. She will be more at risk I would imagine

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