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Anyone else shocked about the football violance at West Ham/Millwall?

(26 Posts)
Mamazon Tue 25-Aug-09 23:08:28

not only was a West Ham footballer stabbed in the legs whilst at home in bed earlier this week but there have been oitch invasions, mass violance and a stabbing at tonights match.

I thought we had left the days of football hooliganism behind us.

AS someone that loves football and looks forward to taking my DS with me to games this terrifies me.

MamaG Tue 25-Aug-09 23:09:51

It's horrible isn't it. I'm so glad my DH isn't into football.

I remember football hooligans being on TV when I was a child, I too thought it had all been left behind.

Disgraceful behaviour

lepirate Tue 25-Aug-09 23:12:52

and to think the queen herself only admitted the other day she is a west ham fan.!

Fruitbeard Wed 26-Aug-09 00:24:55

Don't think it ever went away for Milwall. DH went to a match there about 5 years ago (friend got him a ticket) and he was terrified for his life (and he's not the sort to say that normally!), apparently it's par for the course there...

HeadFairy Wed 26-Aug-09 00:26:19

Not all clubs are that bad.. dh is a Fulham season ticket holder, and they pride themselves on being a family club. Lots of children go, I can't remember there ever being trouble at a Fulham game.

TeamEdward Wed 26-Aug-09 00:26:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Callisto Wed 26-Aug-09 08:10:49

How can it be a suprise when none of the players have any respect for the rules of the game or the games officials? It has always amazed me that football is described as the 'beautiful game' when there is little beauty in the players or fans, just tribalism, hatred and violence.

ssd Wed 26-Aug-09 08:17:02

what a narrow minded, ill informed post there, callisto

you are wrong, many if not all football clubs encourage fair play, no racism and welcome families as standard

Millwall has a history of violence and bad behavouir, don't tar all clubs with the one brush

mehdismummy Wed 26-Aug-09 08:29:18

agree with callisto, its just pure mindless blatant inbreeding, how do we expect our children and teenagers to behave wheen these so called adults are doing exactly the same, this is a small minority of people that actually like the game its idiots who have below normal intelligence being violent because they are stupid, millwall is always known for their so called supporters. the problem is there is not enough deterent for offenders because they know our justice system is shit and if u can murder a baby and get 5 mins in jail for it, you will get a lovely bit of community service for violence. it makes me so mad that those wonderful men died recently who fought for this country actually fought for bugger all because this country has turned to shit, they didnt get a knighthood or anything and they knight alan sugar and whats he and many other of these celibrity twats done? we make a big deal about how outraged we all our that that the libyians made a big deal about the lockerbie bloke coming back, wtf did they think they would do ffs, tell him to slip into the country and ignore him? i tell you i am not at leat bit proud to be british (sorry long rant) <waves to mamazon>

Callisto Wed 26-Aug-09 08:30:33

Hmm, I probably do have an irrational dislike of football, but when I see it (not often admittedly) the players always seem to be screaming abuse at the referee because they don't agree with a decision. It isn't something that goes on in any other game that I can think of. So I think in general fair play is not something actively encouraged in football.

mehdismummy Wed 26-Aug-09 08:32:53

i think the players just get a bit over involved because they are in the male hormone team playing mode! certainly not mindless violence, well apart from that arrogant wanker joey barton that is

atlantis Wed 26-Aug-09 09:20:40

Football is a beautiful game, to the people who like football the skill involved in placing the ball at the feet of another player who then goes on to arch the ball in the air, curve it around a wall of players and place it in the back on the net is akin to someone who likes watching the skill of a ballet dancer performing madam butterfly, it's all dependent on personal tastes.

As for the hooliganism of football,I remember growing up in the 70's and 80's when it was rife, on the terraces as well as the streets, some men would eagerly look forward to the thuggery on the streets before and after a match and a lot of the fighting was co-ordinated, but the tragedy of Hillsborough ( don't get me started) woke the FA up and the fences came down, the clubs did a lot of work over the years to make the sport a family orientated sport again but some supporters (millwall in particular) have and will always have a thug mentality.

What do you do? You can fine the clubs and dock them points ( a way to make fans regulate fans so they behave or see their club relegated) but can you blame a club for it's 'fans' especially when the club have tried so hard to stop it? What about the fans who do not involve themselves in the fighting? Let's not forget when a 'fan' is caught involved in violence they usually get a 'ban' from attending football matches, but that can just put the violence back onto the streets.

After Hillsborough the game in this country changed, we should be proud of the fact that our football fans, on the whole are rarely involved in fighting ( squirmishes yes, now and again) if you look at Europe, they still have a huge problem with violence, akin to what we had in the 70's and 80's when violence happened up and down the country on a weekly basis.

But you have always had men who use whatever reason to bash the stuffing out of each other ( mods and rockers come to mind) (protesters) you can't blame the game or the players (who are also on the whole pretty we behaved on the pitch compared to the past, but with some exceptions ( foreign players being the worst normally)for that.

That doesn't mean I condone the violence, I don't, that doesn't mean I support Millwall either shock my team are more civalised and in a completely different league (literally).

flowerybeanbag Wed 26-Aug-09 09:30:25

As a West Ham season ticket holder I am disappointed and embarrassed by any part played in it by West Ham 'fans'.

However it's worth mentioning that although capacity at Upton Park is 35,000, and the ground is usually full, the attendance last night was about 10,000 apparently. Season ticket holders and 'normal' fans on the whole stayed away, including DH and myself.

Debs75 Wed 26-Aug-09 09:30:36

Millwall came to Hull last season and ripped up half our stadium. This last month Hull police arrested the Hull fans which were fighting and sent a list of the Millwall fans to the Met but they didn't arrest the Millwall fans.
It stands to reason that some of those millwall 'fans' will of been at the West Ham game last night organising trouble. The Met knew there would be trouble so it is about time in big trouble clashes like these they started playing behind closed doors.

It isn't just English football which has hooligans. Roma are one of the worst teams for it. Ever wondered how there are always flares going off in Italian football? The clubs are so afraid of the Roma fans they let them store them in the ground before match days. The police over there target English fans so they can get them locked up before big trouble escalates.

PitysSake Wed 26-Aug-09 09:30:58

violence

CyradisTheSeer Wed 26-Aug-09 09:58:19

Message withdrawn

Rindercella Wed 26-Aug-09 10:08:01

ROFL @ PitysSake correcting another poster's spelling typing hmm

Millwall have a reputation for such thuggery. When the draw was made for last night's match, everyone predicted that there was likely to be trouble as Millwall and West Ham are age old rivals. It is a shame that not more was done to put measures in place to at least minimise last night's violence.

Thankfully the game (and its fans) have, for the most part, changed for the better. If you went to a Premiership game you would be very unlikely to encounter any trouble at all.

I am not sure if the player who was so terribly attacked at the weekend had anything to do with actual football though. The full facts are of course still to come out, but from what I have heard it was because of one of his family member's being involved with the wrong crowd. It is highly likely that his footballing career will be over sad

mayorquimby Wed 26-Aug-09 11:23:52

"How can it be a suprise when none of the players have any respect for the rules of the game or the games officials?"

and in what sport do they? i can't think of any competitive sport bar golf where players don't seek to gain an illegal advantage.

as for last night it was truely disgusting, but for me the worst part was that it seemed inevitable. evryone had accepted it before hand because of the history of both clubs. as can be seen by flowerybean and many others decision to stay away from last nights game.
but what has to be emphasised as well is that this is not the norm.

Sagacious Wed 26-Aug-09 19:57:20

Well durr
Its not exactly suprising there was trouble at a West Ham v Millwall game.

My only shock is that the police were so woefully inept. Where was the intelligence? The whole fight would have been set up months ago as soon as the draw was announced it was long time set in motion.
Its not exactly bloody rocket science is it?Bejesus theres even crappy Greenstreet as reference material.

(am a true WH fan and yes it was bloody shaming but I really wasn't suprised)

MrsMattie Wed 26-Aug-09 19:58:50

Not shocked, but disgusted.

Sagacious Wed 26-Aug-09 19:58:57

And the Millwall fan on BBC news..bemoaning the fact he was scared cos he bought his children to the game.. FFS what planet are you on?

notnowbernard Wed 26-Aug-09 20:02:52

I doubt it has chuff all to do with football when talking about a Millwall/West Ham game

Agree with Sagacious, this would have been set up weeks ago

I recommend reading THe Football Factory as an insight into the psychology of football 'fan' violence

foxinsocks Wed 26-Aug-09 20:05:59

I would never go to a game at Millwall and if Millwall came to us, I certainly wouldn't take the dcs to it (though having said that, all the Millwall tickets were sold to season ticket holders apparently...so easy to account for them. I get the impression from our WH friends that their tickets were more of a free for all and the trouble was apparently started in the WH end. That's just what I've heard though).

I agree re the post about the police. That is surprising in a way as they are normally v organised for this sort of thing. I feel sorry for them in a way. Wouldn't have wanted to be stuck in the middle of that.

Am sure they will find that there were loads of people involved in the fight who have nothing to do with either club but just turned out to have a fight. Is always the way.

They need to ban these people, not only from the grounds, but the surrounding areas. How you do this practically, I do not know.

notnowbernard Wed 26-Aug-09 20:11:06

I've been to Millwall several times and survived

Sagacious Wed 26-Aug-09 20:12:40

Me too but I had to keep my wits about me (and not wear colours) and I'm a girl and that helps a lot

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