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Afghan men can starve wives into sex

(71 Posts)
TheDMshouldbeRivened Sun 16-Aug-09 17:28:06

I see the invasion made fuck all difference then

iMum Sun 16-Aug-09 17:30:45


StayFrostyDMisaVileRag Sun 16-Aug-09 17:33:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wonderstuff Sun 16-Aug-09 17:36:15

How sad

moondog Sun 16-Aug-09 17:39:09

Fucking appalling what happens in that country. I saw a shocking documentary on BBC World today on the constant harrassment and abuse the few brave women MPs face.

MegBusset Sun 16-Aug-09 18:26:15

Terrible. We are sending servicemen and women to die in order to prop up that govt angry

wahwah Sun 16-Aug-09 19:50:53

It's just disgusting. I can't think of anything else to say.

SomeGuy Sun 16-Aug-09 20:15:53

It's not just the government, it's the people. That's what they've been brought up to believe.

There was a case of an apostate (Muslim to Christian), and he was sentenced to death in Afghanistan. The Karzai puppet government was subject to international pressure not to kill him, but when they polled Afghan people, over 90% believed he should be killed.

You can't necessarily replace a government and expect the population to turn into Hampstead liberals.

crawk Sun 16-Aug-09 20:36:12

SomeGuy -- when you're living in fear and persecution you'll say and vote whatever way you're intimidated into.

If you were a wife-beater and asked your wife, "Am I a good husband?" what's she going to say?

If you asked people in Germany in 1937 if they opposed the Nazi Party, how many could or would have spoken out against them?

This "law" is a tragedy on so many levels.

What can we do about it?

Pester our MPs - our votes do count.

Mumsnet runs campaigns - they appear to have the ear of the government and opposition so can some action be launched here?

TheProfiteroleThief Sun 16-Aug-09 20:40:04

Good God.

I try not to generalise as I have moslem friends with loving partnerships for marriages, but I am infuriated when i see cultures that regard and treat women in this way.

TheDMshouldbeRivened Mon 17-Aug-09 08:01:37

its culture using the religion as a tool.
Karzai is a weak american puppet. They could have found a stronger one sad

sherazade Mon 17-Aug-09 10:01:26

riven, he was picked because he is an incompetent fu*, not inspite of it

anyone still believe that the afgan project was about enlightenment? a few badly thought out womens rights ( you can remove your burkha but its fine if your husband starves you) were only there to ease our consciences.

sherazade Mon 17-Aug-09 10:03:58

crawk, i can't believe your comparing karzai's government to the nazi party. er, we put karzai there. He's supposed to be replacing the bad guys taliban, remember?

exactly, someguy.

TheDMshouldbeRivened Mon 17-Aug-09 10:18:05

true sherazade

MegBusset Mon 17-Aug-09 13:14:38

We (well, us and the Americans) put the Taliban there too, remember?

monkeytrousers Mon 17-Aug-09 13:17:31

Get them bac over!

thedollshouse Mon 17-Aug-09 13:25:31

I agree with someguy.

People in the rural communities in Afghanistan have been living this way for centuries you can't make changes overnight. Karzai wants to win votes and I am afraid that the average Afghan will vote for a party which allows him to repress and abuse his wife.

The government are kidding nobody when they say that they invaded Afghanistan to improve the lives of the Afghan people. They invaded because Afghanistan posed a threat to the security of the western world, which in my opinion is more of a justifiable reason anyway. You can't impose western values on a country that is stuck in the middle ages.

sherazade Mon 17-Aug-09 13:41:11

right, megbusset. So the liberation of afgani women was never really on the agenda, was it?

SomeGuy Mon 17-Aug-09 13:56:20

I think it was, partly, but it would have been quite hard to replace the Taliban with say Harriet Harperson. When the West interferes with other countries, which it frequently does, it has to work with what it finds when doing regime replacement. You can't engineer a whole new ideology. So you often end up with ugly-looking replacements such as Pinochet, Suharto et al.

Karzai is in a weak position and subject to influence from hardline clerics. I guess he sees this sort of thing as a concession to keep him in power, otherwise you could end up back in Talibanland.

Morloth Mon 17-Aug-09 14:17:06

You can't force change on people from the outside, change can only come from within the culture itself.

I agree with thedollshouse, the war was about Afghanistan being a threat/money/oil etc. It was never about "freeing" women though that made it more palatable to western people.

The only people who can change the way women are treated in the Middle East are the locals. It is up to them to decide, you cannot impose a new belief system on people who do not want it.

monkeytrousers Mon 17-Aug-09 16:23:59

There has to be some force. Whether it comes from dissidents, which usually live outside their countries and lobby for their host country to intervene. Progress does not come without conflict of some sort.

If it is true that "The only people who can change the way women are treated in the Middle East are the locals. It is up to them to decide, you cannot impose a new belief system on people who do not want it." then it will never happen. What of those women who were brave enough to march in Kabul this year. They are the tip of the iceberg. Do we just leave them to rot not?

Morloth Mon 17-Aug-09 16:28:40

I don't know monkey.

I am not sure how I feel about involving ourselves in other people's domestic affairs. If it is OK for us to use force against Afghanistan then it is presumably OK for them (or Al-quada [sp]) or whoever else to use force against us in an attempt to impose their ideals and beliefs on the West.

It cuts both ways. Both sides believe all the way down to the depths of their souls that they are right.

TheDMOfficeIsFullOfImmigrants Mon 17-Aug-09 16:32:34

"the law effectively condoned rape by removing the need for consent to sex within marriage." How abnormal a human being would you have to be to actually think it's okay to coerce your partner into shagging you, using any methods, let alone starvation???

This stuff is beyond the imagination. How utterly, utterly, horrifically awful.

TheDMshouldbeRivened Mon 17-Aug-09 16:33:50

rape within marriage was only made against the law or recognised not that long ago here.

TheDMOfficeIsFullOfImmigrants Mon 17-Aug-09 16:35:41

Yes, I remember that, too, Riven. Awful, awful.

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