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"Since when was racist bullying the only 'wrong' form of bullying? "

(36 Posts)
Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 15:17:48

article here: Which is worse: bullying a child because they?re a) black, b) pretty, c) clever or d) they have big blubbery lips?...

Fair point IMHO, it irks me that public service adviertising against bullying, here in Scotland, seems to suggest it is wrong to torment someone only if it is on racist or homophobic grounds. Bullying is hateful in any form.

Tamarto Thu 23-Jul-09 15:26:30

Must have missed that here in Scotland. hmm

sarah293 Thu 23-Jul-09 15:28:58

Message withdrawn

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 15:40:30

Radio ads - depends on the station you listen to, I guess. IIRC also on buses last year.

seeker Thu 23-Jul-09 15:55:46

"seems to suggest it is wrong to torment someone only if it is on racist or homophobic grounds."

Exactly how?

Tamarto Thu 23-Jul-09 15:57:52

For someone so anti bullying the journo has a lovely turn of phrase. hmm

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 16:06:22

I don't have the ads on playback, but IIRC they were examples of playground behaviour, highlighting that it is unacceptable if there is bullying with e.g. racist undertones. By implication, it is okay if not.

seeker Thu 23-Jul-09 16:25:34

"If I remember correctly" "By implication" "Seems to suggest" hmm

FranSanDisco Thu 23-Jul-09 17:01:15

I recently had to give s witness statement to the police concerning an attack on my neighbour. They said it would go to court only if a racial motive could be proved. The victim is Black African and the 'thug' mixed race (Jamaican father apparently). It is going to court in October. Has the victim and 'thug' been same race he wouldn't have been prosecuted even though injuries would have been the same. Is this to meet government targets?

Goblinchild Thu 23-Jul-09 17:04:48

Some of the worst racist bullying I've ever witnessed was Pakistani v Bengali in schools.

FranSanDisco Thu 23-Jul-09 17:11:08

My dh and myself stepped in to stop our neighbour being badly hurt, hence witness statements. However, had my dh been the victim it may not have got to court as the cps wanted a racist motive to be present hmm.

edam Thu 23-Jul-09 17:17:13

It does seem that certain forms of discrimination are taken more seriously than others - crimes of hatred against women aren't treated as 'sexist' crimes in the same way that hatred against someone's ethnicity is treated as a 'racist' crime.

tbh, feels as if sexism isn't even noticed these days, let alone criticised.

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 17:31:08

I remember a famous case where a young black man was murdered and the publicity was all about the race aspect.

I kept thinking that it would be just as horrendous a tragedy if he had been killed because of his football strip. Just as evil, and just as pointless. It does not make sense to me that, because those murderers were also racists, they are punished more severely.

UnquietDad Thu 23-Jul-09 17:34:17

In the end, attaching a "reason" to why someone commits an act of bullying or violence sounds dangerously like you are trying to "explain" it, even justify it on some level. It's surely just as nasty no matter what the motivation.

edam Thu 23-Jul-09 17:35:46

Or, alternatively, that horrendous case where a poor girl with LDs was gang-raped and scarred for life - did her attackers get extra for a crime aggravated by discrimination against someone with disabilities? Or for a sex crime i.e. the equivalent of a crime motivated by racial hatred? (The attackers chose a victim who would be more vulnerable than anyone else.)

Did they hell. The general public had to write to the attorney general to get the extremely lenient terms reviewed...

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 17:36:21

just to qualify my last post - incitement to racial hatred obviously is a crime in itself, just a different one...

being racist, misogynist, homophobic, whatever is wrong but not a crime in itself

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 17:44:57

Unquiet Dad - I think you have put your finger on why it gets to me. As an explanation it could become justification and there is none.

Edam, I remember that case when it was first reported. I don't remember the sentencing being reported.

more on that here for anyone who is interested

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 17:46:37

I will have nightmares about that. I know the damage caustic soda can do. That is the most horrific crime imaginable, how they got such light sentences is beyond me. sad

Besom Thu 23-Jul-09 17:54:31

Upwind - I don't know which famous case you are referring to, but if it is Stephen Lawrence then iirc the reason the focus was on the race aspect was because of alleged institutional racism in the police and how it affected the subsequent enquiry.

Upwind Thu 23-Jul-09 17:58:39

Besom, I was thinking of Anthony Walker

Besom Thu 23-Jul-09 18:04:08

Yes, I thought you might mean him as well. Although, I suppose the Lawrence case may affect how the media deals with subsequent similar cases?

Poshpaws Thu 23-Jul-09 18:04:55

As far as I am aware, in England hate crimes cover disability, race, gender and religion. Also, as far as I am aware,these type of crimes should be subjected to the same type of sentencing (I have worked for Victim Support). Not sure I have met anyone who thinks that a racist incident is of greater importance than any other, although I have met many who think it is of less importance hmm

I can't take a journalist too seriously when he uses the phrase 'being a spaz at sports'.

Poshpaws Thu 23-Jul-09 18:08:34

Also, re Anthony Walker, it was a racist murder because the perpetrators were racially abusing him and his white girlfriend moments before they followed them into the park and attacked him.

If it had been soley about the team he supported, then this would have been mentioned. AFAIK, football didn't even come into it hmm.

Besom Thu 23-Jul-09 18:21:42

I think there has been an equal level of shock about other cases where people have been killed because of what they were wearing. Anything like this shocks people, obviously. I don't agree that more is made of it when the victim is black and it is racially motivated.

But obviously the racial motivation will be discussed and is all important to that case . It is the reason why that boy was killed.

edam Thu 23-Jul-09 19:07:02

poshpaws, have there been any cases of violence against women, or people with disabilities, which have been treated in the same way as those crimes that are considered to have been racially motivated? Has anyone got a longer sentence because they singled out women or disabled people as their victims, or were abusing their female or disabled victim?

Because I haven't seen a single report of one... plenty of stories about (horrific) racially-motivated crimes, and one or two homophobic, but nothing about women or people with disabilities.

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