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They want private schools to share extra curricular with state?

(17 Posts)
karise Tue 21-Jul-09 11:15:45

News 24 just stated that private school pupils are selected for 'top jobs' because of the extra curricular activities & communication skills. Therefore top professions value a breadth of education over anything else.
Is it me or is this an admission that the national curriculum is failing our children?

claricebeansmum Tue 21-Jul-09 11:19:48

Interview on Radio 4 this morning with Milburn talking about children in "our failing schools" - you can't help thinking hmm. Yes - everyone should have the same chances to go to university and the gap between independent and state system is more of a chasm than gap (obviously sweeping generalisaion there before am flamed for all the brilliant state schools/rubbish independents) and there is only one set of people responsible for this - the government with their unceasing targets and initiatives foisted upon teachers who are trying to teach.

karise Tue 21-Jul-09 11:30:11

Hmm, they've just said that another reason for the success of private schools is the cadets giving a sense of discipline not available in state schools-
So our state system is failing on discipline too!
Why do we send our children into school everyday again? hmm

southeastastra Tue 21-Jul-09 11:32:24

mess isn't it and people say there is no class divide hmm

southeastastra Tue 21-Jul-09 11:32:47

oh and i'm glad they're getting rid of connexions, they gave my ds(15) awful advice

claricebeansmum Tue 21-Jul-09 11:36:17

SEA - I think the class divide is now across all parts of society - education, health, food etc. I am really lucky and lead a charmed life but it worries me that so many people are being failed in all areas of life.

Why don't state school run cadets?

Katz Tue 21-Jul-09 11:39:13

i think there is far too much slating of the school system in this country, the government is far too prescriptive as to what can and cannot be taught, what has to be covered leaving very little for the teachers to use their own initiative with. As has been said before on mumsnet there are good schools and there are bad school in the state sector and the private, making sweeping generalisations about either is neither helpful nor going change anything.

All teachers need to be allowed to get on with what they're employed to do TEACH. Schools need to be able to use sanctions with pupils and we need to reintroduce a sense of pride in our schools. Children need to know that they are part of the school that all of their actions have consequences and schools should be allowed to act on those, whether thats having sports days and other competitive events to promote a sense of achievement or being able to exclude a child for violence. I would welcome all schools reintroducing the 'house' system where achievement, behaviour and cooperation results in house points for individuals, which in turns shows how being a team player can benefit more poeple.

karise Tue 21-Jul-09 11:47:06

I believe that the free music tuition we all used to get was one of the very few routes out of poverty. With that gone, no discipline allowed in schools and a too narrow and perscriptive national curriculum what hope does any state school have left to encourage their pupils?
Competition is even banned!

islandofsodor Tue 21-Jul-09 11:47:08

I do think it is an admission that the National curriculum is failing our children. I also don;t think it is just about money, more about ethos and attitudes toards extra currcular stuff.

The headmaster of the independent senior school attached to my children's junior school wrote a letter at the ned of term based on a speech day speech extolling the virtues of extra curricular activites and encouraging everyone to take part whether it be music, sport or whatever. He wrote that research has proved that children who take part in things get better results etc on the whole.

My husband works in state schools as a visiting music teacher and he also runs various after school stuff. His friend who is a music teacher is so totally disillusioned over the attitude of SMT towards this stuff. Childern are being refused to be allowed out to instrumental lessons. A free specialist workshop had to be cancelled becasue the head wanted the kids to have extra literacy instead. Kids are being told to stay in school til 6pm for booster lessons in maths and English to try and bump up results meaning they can't take part in other activities or are too tired and burnt out.

A theatre trip was cancelled becasue other subject teachers objected. There are other examples too numerous to mention.

Another firned works in a state school with a totally different ethos where the head really values this stuff and despite the school being in a deprived area of a large city it is a vibrant school I would be happy to send my children to (if we didn't live 50 miles away!!!!)It had previously been in special measures. What a difference.

edam Tue 21-Jul-09 11:53:29

It's not just extra-curricular, it's the parents' contacts - if you have professional parents, they can put you in touch with so-and-so to get some work experience, or support you while you do an unpaid internship for six months.

Maybe firms need to have stricter recruitment procedures for unpaid work in line with paid work. Or perhaps there should be some state support for kids doing work experience. Although that would just subsidise employers who can get work done on the cheap...

OrmIrian Tue 21-Jul-09 12:07:11

edam - that is what came across to me most strongly from that report. Who you know being as important as what you know. They were suggesting setting up the school equivalent of the pushy parent.

margotfonteyn Tue 21-Jul-09 12:08:39

Glad to see the penny's finally dropped with Alan Milburn. What took him so long to realise?

My DD has just graduated from Russell Group university with a 2:1 and no job. Fortunately, for her, we can afford to give her money until she gets a job, any job at all. Some of friends are doing internships, unpaid work experience with 'friends of the family' etc., a 'choice' that certainly isn't open to the vast majority of people.

Many state school pupils have already lost the 'choice' of which university to go to long before they actually apply, due to taking the 'wrong' subjects anyway.

My DC are/have been very lucky that they attend/attended an excellent selective state school, 40 or so a year get into Oxbridge, everyone goes on to university.

I don't particularly think everyone should go to university but I do think everyone should have the same opportunity to apply, and it be an even playing field in that application.

kathyis6incheshigh Tue 21-Jul-09 12:12:11

I PMSL @ this line in the BBC online report on this:
'Mr Milburn told the BBC: "We have raised the glass ceiling but I don't think we have broken through it yet." '

No you bloody haven't! You've lowered it you tosser!
Typical New Labour.

MollieOolala Tue 21-Jul-09 12:36:52

State school pupils can and do do extra curricular activities so that can't be the whole picture. It is easier at independent schools as a lot of them provide the extra curricular activities on site.

I've never been in favour of the prescriptive nature of the NC but I'm not sure what the answer is. At least with the NC you have some kind of bench mark which isn't a good thing for schools that excel but surely is for those schools that would struggle to properly educate?

At ds's school they take them out of lessons for individual music lessons, just as I did when I was at school. He is at private school and I do feel that I am paying for the same level of education that I had for free (albeit nearly 40 years ago!).

edam Tue 21-Jul-09 13:38:44

internships are a real bugger. I know of one glossy mag publishing group that expects people to work for free for 6 months+ - good for their bottom line and equally ensures they only get 'nice gels' applying. hmm

I did tons of work experience while at university, as I wanted to get into journalism.

Was very hard as I was a slightly mature (23yo) student, with a mortgage. But thankfully with a partner who was working full-time (for crap money though, he is the same age so was in very junior roles) and with parents who did bail us out in extremis.

I basically worked full-time as a student (course required lots of hours per week), part-time to earn money, and did work experience on top of that... but get the idea this is a. the norm these days (which I don't think it was for people wanting to go into some other careers) and b. even worse than it was for me in the 90s

dilemma456 Tue 21-Jul-09 13:42:54

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dilemma456 Tue 21-Jul-09 13:43:47

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