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If the Tories win, Cameron will support plans to reduce the upper abortion limit

(243 Posts)
policywonk Wed 15-Jul-09 12:26:28

yikes

scienceteacher Wed 15-Jul-09 12:29:27

Sounds like a good idea to me.

bronze Wed 15-Jul-09 12:35:23

ANd me. I know of a few babies born before 24 weeks some of which are fine so the 24 week law always makes me feel slightly ill

MrsArchieTheInventor Wed 15-Jul-09 12:39:54

I've felt unconfortable for a long time with the limit of 24 weeks. I don't want to get into the inevitable abortion debate but I personally would favour the time limit being reduced to 20 weeks.

TheCrackFox Wed 15-Jul-09 12:39:59

I, personally, would like the limit reduced to 20 weeks.

nancy75 Wed 15-Jul-09 12:40:42

agree, would like to see the limit reduced

saintlydamemrsturnip Wed 15-Jul-09 12:43:08

The NO person has her facts wrong. Termination for disability is allowed up to birth, so reducing the limit isn't going to affect that.

Not sure I have an opinion on 24 vs 20 weeks. Would need to consider.

lemonmuffin Wed 15-Jul-09 12:43:22

Me too. Agree that the 24 week limit is too high, would be glad to see it reduced

Indith Wed 15-Jul-09 12:43:51

I hope that it is not cut. Nobody has an abortion at 24 weeks lightly, the upper limit for certain cases needs to remain at 24 weeks. Think about it, you have your 20 week scan, often at a little over 20 weeks, perhaps 21 weeks and it shows a problem. You need time to think, perhaps have a further scan before making a decision. You cannot say that the cut of for abortion should be the same time as/before many people have their anomoly scans.

expatinscotland Wed 15-Jul-09 12:45:49

I'd like to see the limit reduced.

saintlydamemrsturnip Wed 15-Jul-09 12:45:57

Indith - you can terminate up to birth for disability and Cameron is not proposing altering that. (I would support a reduction in that limit although not sure what to).

Actually I think termination should be allowed up to birth for everyone. As Idrith says no-one would enter into a late termination lightly so not sure why apparently non-disabled babies should be afforded more protection. But would be problematic to set a limit to cut off for disability.

saintlydamemrsturnip Wed 15-Jul-09 12:46:53

ha ha I contradicted myself. But actually I agree with my second paragraph.

muggglewump Wed 15-Jul-09 12:51:09

I think it should be left.
Very few women have a termination after 20 weeks but those who do don't enter into it lightly.
I know, I was one of those women, and I'm glad the limit was 24 weeks.
It would have been OK at 20 weeks, if I wasn't made to wait 4 weeks and travel to the other end of the country of cousre, but I was.
The very few women who choose it need it to be there for them.

ilovemydogandmrobama Wed 15-Jul-09 13:00:07

I didn't think there was a limit?

scienceteacher Wed 15-Jul-09 13:02:07

There is a limit as to how abortion can be used as a form of birth control.

anonandlikeit Wed 15-Jul-09 13:09:27

It is a difficult one, i actually don't think it is the "limit" that is the biggest problem.
I think everyone should have informed choice.
Having spent months in SCBU wiht my prem son it would be easy to say that the cut off point should be lower, becaue these very prem babies are little people with their own personalities, likes, dislikes etc.

But life is never that simple, ther are cases when the baby is found to have severe abnormalities incompatible with life that the parents need time & information to make whatever choice is best for them.

Instead of cutting the limit we need to invest training & support in to supporting families at such a difficult time.
Better guidlines also need to be in place to ensure termination is discussed as an option & not just recommended when abnormalities are discovered.

saintlydamemrsturnip Wed 15-Jul-09 13:16:00

OK I am going to shout because no-one is listening.

TERMINATION FOR DISABILITY/ABNORMALITIES CAN TAKE PLACE UP UNTIL BIRTH.

Cameron isn't proposing changing that. He has stated previously that he supports currently legislation on termination for children with disabilities.

Agree though anon- that better counselling all round would be helpful.

Although I would like laws surrounding termination for disabled/non-disabled babies to be the same I don't agree with the YES woman on that link. You can never outlaw termination - if someone doesn't want the baby she is carrying she won't carry it. Women need to be supported in their decision - so yes make disabled/non-disabled equivalent but do it by raising the limit.

anonandlikeit Wed 15-Jul-09 13:18:08

I agree sintly, equality must start at conception.

policywonk Wed 15-Jul-09 13:38:15

Obviously it's an emotive issue, but on balance I don't think the limit should be cut. Women (and girls) who terminate that late are usually doing so for compelling reasons. Reducing the upper limit is going to penalise the most desperate women.

Plus - not entirely the same issue but related - it can be very difficult to access a timely abortion in this country, depending on your own resources and on the attitude of your GP. Women frequently have to wait for weeks for abortions that they have requested at a relatively early stage. I'd be more confident about the Tories' motivation if they were proposing a real shake-up in access to early abortions - but they're not. It seems to me that their motive is punitive and prurient (and, in the case of Dorries, mostly religious).

pecanpie Wed 15-Jul-09 13:46:35

So if abortion is ok up to birth if the baby is disabled,what exactly are the 'compelling reasons' for abortion otherwise which would require a thinking period of around 18 weeks (by the time a person realised they were pregnant)?

greenelephant Wed 15-Jul-09 13:48:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

muggglewump Wed 15-Jul-09 13:59:21

It is incredibly difficult to get a later abortion. It's not like popping into the GP and having it the next day.
As I said, I had to wait 4 weeks, two GP appointments, two appointments with BPAS here (Glasgow), one scan where they were horrible to me as they could see where I'd been referred from and then two days in London.
I wasn't offerred counselling either which you'd think would be standard

The experience was dreadful, the right choice for me, but horrible. I insisted on being aterilised a year later and the only reason the doctor agreed (after telling me I should have babies for an imaginery man I may meet), was because I told him what I'd done.
He looked disgusted with me. sad

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jul-09 14:00:52

I always like to post the great essay by Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan on these threads www.2think.org/abortion.shtmland another piece that shows why legal abortion is a moral cornerstone of morality and civilizationwww.atheistfoundation.org.au/abortion.htm

policywonk Wed 15-Jul-09 14:20:08

pecan, I think that a lot of women who have abortions this late haven't realised that they are pregnant, or have been too frightened to access health services (young girls, women in coercive domestic situations). A lot of late abortions are caused by changes in circumstances - eg women who have suddenly been made homeless.

Sorry to hear your story muggle. I think GPs who allow their personal problems with abortion to affect the way they deal with patients should be disciplined.

2shoes Wed 15-Jul-09 15:40:55

wow good on him, hope he stops the "termination" of viable disabled babies as well.

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