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The Brown Crisis - storm in a teacup?

(38 Posts)
Maninadirndl Thu 04-Jun-09 01:26:36

Anyone here think it's all irrelevant? Just a plot to get that "good looking" Cameron into power and that "miserable ugly" Brown out?

This expenses thing has been a "perk" of the job for decades, hell the biggest "perk" was under Thatcher called the Al Yamamah contract which Thatcher set up with Saudi Arabia. Google that. Putting the Tories back in will be a bigger disaster than Brown.

Likely scenario: Brown out and Cameron in. Within two years he'll realise the job of PM is a pile of shite and he has no real power.

None of these idiots in power addresses the following 3 simple threats to our existence:

1. Climate change.
2. Peak Oil. It is RUNNING out. Google "Hubbert Curve" and "Peak Oil" and then Google "Transition Town" to see how ordinary people are doing grassroots things to tackle this one.
3. Economic Collapse. Somewhere there's a graph showing how debt in relation to your country's GDP should only be 150% to be healthy. Credit crucnch it was 350%. Check out the programme "The Acent of Money" to analysewhy we ended up in the doo do.

Now if any of these clowns in that building guy Fawkes failed to renovate could figure this out, perhaps a charismatic woman MP or an Asian businessman then we'd have a Eureka moment like America did with Obama. But we won't.

Good job I live in Germany....

mrsruffallo Thu 04-Jun-09 07:24:59

But Gordon Brown in better looking than Cameron.
All the other stuff is important too of course <shallow>

Callisto Thu 04-Jun-09 08:01:54

The US may have had an Eureka moment with Obama, but he is still finding it very hard to make progress with climate change. Take the carbon cap and trade for instance, it has been pretty well neutered by congress, and he should have brought in carbon tax ie the more you pollute, the more you pay. Unfortunately, this would have been thrown out in seconds though - too many with interests in coal etc.

I completely agree that politicians in the UK should be talking about peak oil and climate change (not so sure about economic collapse - I would say energy/food/water securtity is a more important issue right now) but they won't because they don't want to scare the sheep.

monkeytrousers Thu 04-Jun-09 09:43:38

I hope so. I actually like Brown very much.

It looks like his policies to stop ecomonic freefall have worked too, though there will be no government money around fo social enterprise for a while - it's what had to be done.

So I say - fuck off Cameron!


Callisto Thu 04-Jun-09 11:58:35

I loathe Brown with a passion and can't wait for a government of a different colour. I'm amazed that anyone would still consider voting for such a corrupt, power-hungry, tribal, ineffectual government as this one. Even the Guardian thinks Brown should go now.

Callisto Thu 04-Jun-09 12:00:00

Forgot to add authoritarian and illiberal to the list of why no-one should vote for Labour in the coming elections.

sfxmum Thu 04-Jun-09 12:09:32

this looks like the last days of Major it is all very tragic and obviously self inflected, I think a Tory government is inevitable
personally I would prefer to have serious electoral reform and have a well thought out proportional representation system, huge majorities which aren't really representative of the way the People voted are never good IMO

Callisto Thu 04-Jun-09 12:21:08

I'd love to see some real power return to Parliament - if MP's actually had meaningful stuff to do I'm sure they would spend less time fiddling their expenses and we also might get a better calibre of politician.

stickybun Thu 04-Jun-09 12:21:22

I am not so sure that his economic policies are likely to work much after May/June 2010. I think they are running a scorched earth policy in the expectation that they will lose bigtime. Darling plans to run a hefty budget deficit next year. By 2010 the interest on these debts will be more than Defence and Education spending combined. AFAIK the debt (which I have heard quoted as being bigger than the debt at the end of WW2)is not just a result of "the global financial crisis which started in America". Apparantly less than a sixth of it can be explained in this way - most of it is down to expanding Govt. Depts.. There are huge amounts of debt if you include things like PFI and PPP (i.e. the money that paid for all the schools and hospitals). In all probability there will have to be enormous cuts no matter who gets in - Cameron or whoever. The thing that fucks me off big time is that ordinary people, like me now have no-one to vote for. No-one is representing us. Gordon Brown has basically said "So I say fuck off" to a large number of white working-class voters who are now being chatted up by the BNP. They need to be annihilated like the Tories were in 1997. Only then is it likely that something more positive will develop..but it's going to take a long-time and in the meantime we've got Cameron and Tony Blair has a nice job at Goldman Sachs.

Is it just me, or did that 'rocking the boat' brooch that Blears was wearing sum up much of what is wrong at the moment. It's just a game to them and the little people don't matter at all.

Callisto Thu 04-Jun-09 12:25:11

I've no idea of Blears history if she ever had a proper job, but I suspect that it is a game if you go straight from uni into politics. It's just a bigger form of student council to them with no idea that if you fuck up there are consequences.

smallwhitecat Thu 04-Jun-09 13:18:34

Message withdrawn

stickybun Thu 04-Jun-09 13:33:51

Exactly smallwhite - what really winds me up is the GB line 'It all started in America'. I thought that the reason Clinton dropped the Glass Steagall(sp?) Act in 2000 (which separated ordinary banking activities from bancasino operations) was that Britain had such lax financial regulation that loads of co's were leaving NY for London. This what led to the development of CDOs (collateralised debt obligations)and all the rest. If what I've heard is true (may not be) I thought the development of a lot of these financial products was exported from RBS. Now I'm not saying that means it all started in Scotland but GB is mainly responsible for the current state of affairs. If you want evidence of what a shit he is just look at how he's treated Alasdair Darling - who imho seems to behave like a reasonable human being (altho not convinced all the printy-printy is a good idea.).

Tinker Thu 04-Jun-09 13:38:49

"At the risk of pointing out the obvious, whose policies do you think lead to the freefall in the first place?" Um schmoozing up to the city? Which no tory govt would have done, not at all, no siree. grin. They would have had controls and regulations in place to stop all of this, of course they would.

smallwhitecat Thu 04-Jun-09 13:48:30

Message withdrawn

stickybun Thu 04-Jun-09 13:56:10

Tinker The thing that makes me really angry isn't what the Tories might have done if they had been in power. It's what New Labour chose to do when they had 12 years and could have done anything they liked. They have trashed so much it's just not true. Saying the other lot might have been worse just doesn't cut it.

Jux Thu 04-Jun-09 13:56:32

i thought we had a eureka moment in 1997 when the Labour Party got in. Then we discovered that Blair was a Tory Mole. Brown in their secret weapon.

We really should kick the lot of them out and start again. There is very little difference between any of them and we need a new system of democracy; this one's broken.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne Thu 04-Jun-09 14:01:28

maninadirndl - totally agree that no-one in authority appears to have heard of peak oil, when it the single issue that will shape the future

reach4sky Thu 04-Jun-09 14:36:50

TInker even if you assume that the Tories would have done the same in relation to the city, it is GB's other actions which have exacerbated the situation so much. A few examples would include selling off the gold reserves at a record low level, buggering the pensions industry and massively increasing debt levels.

Litchick Thu 04-Jun-09 15:56:45

I don't really care whether the Tories would have done worse or better - the point is I voted Labour and am hugely disappointed.
Cannot believe GM has spent every feckin penny and then some, on the assumption that tax income would remain at such high levels.
I'm self emplyed and common sense tells me not to spend every penny I earn in a good year in case next year is not so good.
Christ it aint rocket science is it?

Litchick Thu 04-Jun-09 15:59:05

Should also add that I agree about Peak Oil. DH is currentlt in the middle east and they are very aware of it and planning faccordingly.
What are we doing?

Maninadirndl Fri 05-Jun-09 00:06:36

Litch: funnily enuff the most hated country Saudi has more other resources than you can shake a stick at. Gold etc they havent even started yet on that. richer than we'll ever know. More money to keep heads rolling and Al Qaeda in dizness for decades.

monkeytrousers Fri 05-Jun-09 20:37:44

Do you honestly think it was Brown's policies - or even Labour's policies - that caused the recession?? A global recession where political parites of all colours were holding the reigns in their respective countries?

People just like to gripe. The more ignorant the better, it seems.

monkeytrousers Fri 05-Jun-09 20:39:04

Run for the hills office then Litchick. The world needs your common sense hmm

monkeytrousers Fri 05-Jun-09 20:40:19

And I think golbal ecomomics is rocket science actually.

Fuck me..

stickybun Sat 06-Jun-09 00:13:00

Yes monkeytrousers I do blame Brown for a big chunk of our current predicament. I do not think the anti-Brown comments on this thread are griping or ignorant. If you do maybe you can address the points made re. the pensions crisis, selling off gold reserves at pre-dated auctions and the setting up of the tri-partite system. Oh and while I'm ignorantly griping maybe you could tell me more about the removal of house-price increases from measures of inflation. It seems an odd thing to do given that for most ordinary people it's the biggest purchase of their lives. Oh and while we're at it what about the predicted increases in public debt levels and the notion that our credit status seems likely to be downgraded. These things are not things I expected when I was so happy in 1997. Tell me what there is to be so happy about now (if you exclude all the liabilities for PFI etc). With printing money they can probably keep things rolling until the election but what then? How would things be by say Autumn 2010 even if they managed to get another term. Whoever gets in there will have to be massive cutbacks and as someone with children, elderly relatives and a chronically ill sister that bothers me. WWYD?

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