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STOP. read this. it's so important.

(62 Posts)
Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 22:29:55

can you believe that in iraq the americans are kidnapping the women of wanted people to flush them out....i can't believe it...the invasion was meant to safeguard democracy and human rights wasn't it????

please don't do what everyone else is doing and ignore this article

astonished Fri 22-Apr-05 22:38:32

Thanks for posting this Sophable, bought the paper today but haven't got round to reading most of it yet. BTW did you see the bit where they interviewed anti war protesters about who they were going to vote for. Most said Labour despite their feelings about blair and the War. Guardian are offering a small solution to those who feel uneasy voting Labour for these reasons and that is to get a peg from them, where it when casting vote, take a picture and send it in to The guardian who will print all pics received. Just a small way of saying a vote for Labour isn't necessarily a vote for Blair.

Caligula Fri 22-Apr-05 22:40:16

Yep. I can well believe it.

Nothing the Americans do surprises me.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 22:45:26

not me. lib dem despite the ineptitude i'm afraid. i vowed when he lied and we went to war that i wouldn't vote for blair ever again. and he is still pm. and i cannot cannot cannot vote for him. i just can't. it's not about taxes, it isn't about my (comfortable) standard of living. it's about killing people for totally corrupt reasons.

JoolsToo Fri 22-Apr-05 22:47:55

genuine respect sophable!

Frizbe Fri 22-Apr-05 22:50:48

I'm with you there sophable, time for a change me thinks, lib dems can't do much harm in 4 years and who knows just might do a bit of good!

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 22:50:54

thanks jools. i just wish there were more people that felt like i do about it and would make a difference. i don't want to see the conservatives in (altho i wish they would get their sh*t together and become and genuine opposition)...but i just can't believe blair is going to walk this despite what he's done. I wish i could believe that he feels bad and can't sleep at night but i'm afraid i don't.

bossykate Fri 22-Apr-05 22:54:31

sophable, i agree with you, i just can't bring myself to vote labour this time - i never thought i wouldn't be voting labour on a conscience issue

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 22:55:25

awwww... i'm so genuinely glad bossykate... if you, and me, then maybe others...

bossykate Fri 22-Apr-05 22:58:08

would you feel differently if blair stepped down tomorrow and brown took over? i know i would. whenever i think about blair and the war in iraq, i think about brown and debt relief for the 3rd world - that's more like a foreign policy i could subscribe to.

astonished Fri 22-Apr-05 22:58:26

I'm still pondering, not sure I'll even know on the day of the election. Cannot stand Blair but am a fan of Gordon Brown, and just can't take Michael howard seriously despite agreeing with some of his proposals Always vote liberal in locals so am all over the place really, high ho will continue reading, taking an interest this time, before just voted for the same as my parents

Caligula Fri 22-Apr-05 22:59:27

I'm still voting labour, much as I hate them, because my local (labour) MP voted against the war and has voted for keeping Habeus Corpus - basically, he's a principled Labour man. Twenty years ago, he would have been in the centre of the party, now he's considered left. If everyone on the left in this constituency voted Lib Dem, the Tories would get in (my MP has a majority of only about 3000 - the same as the number of votes the Lib Dems got at the last election).

I would probably vote Lib Dem if I lived in a constituency where they would be likely to get in. But I really don't see how putting Oliver Letwin in charge of the economy instead of Gordon Brown, will help anyone.

astonished Fri 22-Apr-05 23:00:31

Caligula, the splitting the vote thing worries me

bossykate Fri 22-Apr-05 23:02:07

caligula, i've become much more in favour of pr. as a conviction voter, i hate the idea of tactical voting - but as things stand it would be naive not to consider the implications <<big gusty sigh>> i'm in a safe labour seat...

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 23:03:30

but caligula...the conservatives have zero chance of winning this election...tony has made a good job of scaring the bejesus out of us by suggesting that if we aren't all loyal we'll let them in: it ain't gonna happen...i understand that you don't want to lose your local mp...but i hope that not everyone acts accordingly.

bk: yes it would make a big big difference to me if gordon was pm. i'd give him a shot anyday.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 23:05:41

bk: tony bair pledged in the '97 manifesto that if labour got elected they would have a royal commission on proportional representation: guess what, they got in and 2 parliaments later...no commission.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 23:05:41

bk: tony bair pledged in the '97 manifesto that if labour got elected they would have a royal commission on proportional representation: guess what, they got in and 2 parliaments later...no commission.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 23:06:05

blair that is...sorry

Caligula Fri 22-Apr-05 23:06:41

Hmm, don't know about zero chance. I don't think there's much serious danger, but I do know that it's almost certain that if a Tory had been in this constituency instead of my MP, that would have been one more vote for the war. I look at him as being one more vote against all the right wing, regressive policies that New Labour or Old Tory might bring in in the next parliament.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 23:10:15

fair enough. but personally the decision i've made is that at this point, what are those mp's that voted against the war doing about the fact that their leader lied to them...nothing, they're still riding on his daily mail coat tails when they should be kicking him out...what did your local mp do on tuition fees for students?

Caligula Fri 22-Apr-05 23:12:09

voted against - he's known as one of "the usual suspects" - which is why I like him!

bossykate Fri 22-Apr-05 23:13:24

tuition fees for students will be where we part company i'm afraid <<<ducks and runs for cover as fast as unfit post natal body will allow>>>

Caligula Fri 22-Apr-05 23:15:12

Come back, come back, I want to berate you!

bossykate Fri 22-Apr-05 23:18:50

oh if only dh were here, he's an academic! and can argue the points much better than me! our universities are desparately underfunded - no-one wants to pay more tax to support them, even for the people who are prepared to pay more tax issues such as health, primary & secondary education et al come higher up the list.

Heathcliffscathy Fri 22-Apr-05 23:23:12

yeah, but we should pay more tax for them. and if we didn't be spending 35 trillion a day on iraq we wouldn't even need to raise taxes (anyone asking where that money came from...oh sorry, forgot contracts in iraq...totally undemocratically awarded ones...argh!)

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