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(27 Posts)
MrsBigD Thu 10-Mar-05 08:30:12

Oh oh oh... {fume fume fume}... I'm trying to be a working mum and especially the statement by Satoshi Kanazawa in this article really made me mad...

My reply to that... AS IF I HAVE A CHOICE!!! I for myself do not wish to have a less demanding job! I want to use my brain and be challenged! Though I do want a job that either enables me to afford childcare or a job that I can fit around child responsibilities. But looking around it is very obvious that part-time jobs are much worse paid than full time jobs. IMHO it's because the employer suspects that mums want to go back to work (for maybe their sanity - my case) and are 'quite desparate' for part-time, hence taking advantage of this fact and paying less... comes under supply & demand I guess.

Rant over. Need to take dd to nursery

In case you didn't get the mn email with a synopsis:
Working mothers’ blues Women with children are being forced into badly paid, low status jobs because of a lack of quality part-time work, according to the interim findings of the Women and Work commission, set up by Tony Blair to examine the UK’s gender pay gap. The commission, due to report fully in September, says discrimination against women is ‘deeply engrained’ in British society. The gap between the hourly pay of women and men working full-time was 14.4 per cent, while that between part-time women and full-time men was 43.2 per cent. And part-time female workers earned 33.7 per cent less per hour than those working full time. But a (male) academic, Satoshi Kanazawa of the London School of Economics, says in another report this week that women choose it that way - he says after they have babies, mothers don’t want to return to the rat race so they look for less demanding, lower-paid jobs. (Guardian 09.03.05 and Sunday Times 06.03.05)

Bozza Thu 10-Mar-05 09:24:38

Well I came back to working a 3 day week in the same job I had previously done in 5 days. This also worked out for my employer because DS was born Feb 2001 and as I work in IT there was a downturn in workload after all the Y2K work had been completed. So I was on the same hourly rate but have done very badly on pay rises etc since then but I believe this is in common with my full time colleagues. The difference is that IMO they would find it easier to look for a full time position elsewhere on better pay whereas I do feel somewhat trapped. Especially living where I do in the north.

uwila Thu 10-Mar-05 09:32:18

OMG {jaw dropped to floor emoticon}. "mothers don’t want to return to the rat race so they look for less demanding, lower-paid jobs. " That sounds soooo much like "Don't worry your pretty little head..."

The cause of lower paid non-challenging jobs for women has a lot more to do with attitudes like his than it does ANYONE's desire to have a low-paid less-demanding job.

grumpyfrumpy Thu 10-Mar-05 09:34:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pamina3 Thu 10-Mar-05 09:34:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Caligula Thu 10-Mar-05 09:36:35

I didn't want a less challenging, lower paid job. I wanted a part time one.

But no one would give me one, so I had to take a less challenging, lower paid one.

I can't believe these tossers are still getting away with churning out shite like this.

Caligula Thu 10-Mar-05 09:36:45

I didn't want a less challenging, lower paid job. I wanted a part time one.

But no one would give me one, so I had to take a less challenging, lower paid one.

I can't believe these tossers are still getting away with churning out shite like this.

uwila Thu 10-Mar-05 09:37:28

Let's just think about that. How many people would respond to this job ad:

Offering low pay for low demand job. Can work part time. Working mother with other priorities acceptable. Contact MR chauvenist Pig for more information.

Caligula Thu 10-Mar-05 09:38:08

Oops - I'm feeling emphatic this morning!

MrsBigD Thu 10-Mar-05 10:59:11

Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one who got a bit miffed about this

Actually just 'having discussions' with my boss to see whether I can shift my days of work to Tuesday-Saturday so that at least for 1 day I don't need to fork out for childcare and at the same time getting a pay rise. And as it seems that my maternity replacement made a few booboos I might actually get it as he's desperate for a 'useful' person. I knew why I made sure he employed somebody not as good as myself

Marina Thu 10-Mar-05 11:01:45

at Mr Kanazawa's offensive assumptions!

FairyMum Thu 10-Mar-05 11:07:54

Silly little man.

flashingnose Thu 10-Mar-05 12:23:36

Surely, all that's missing is the word "some" i.e. some mothers don’t want to return to the rat race so they look for less demanding, lower-paid jobs?

Either your children work around your job or your job works around your children? My job before children was incredibly demanding - I was literally at clients' beck and call all the time. Now, with 3 children, I wouldn't want to do that - I want to leave work at work and not bring it home with me. Also, I want to be able to pick up and drop off, so that limits the hours I can work. I can't believe I'm so unusual?

bundle Thu 10-Mar-05 12:25:20

i do the same job as i did before the birth of my 2 daughters, albeit with reduced hours (3 days a week) and have v child friendly boss (woman). i have not gone for any promotions/new challenges since i've become a mother so agree have had to compromise. hate sweeping statements tho

Gobbledigook Thu 10-Mar-05 12:30:43

I agree flashingnose - I think just the word some is missing. I know quite a few women who do want less challenging jobs and don't want to be part of the rat race anymore so have left demanding careers and got simpler part time jobs once they have kids.

I think the issue is that lots of women don't want a less challenging job - they want the same job but shorter hours but I can see how that's very hard to achieve. My old job would have been very difficult to do on a part time basis as there was a lot of travelling and being at clients' beck and call so working Monday to Wednesday and leaving at 5.30 to do nursery pick up just wasn't going to be feasible, even though theoretically I should have been entitled to do so.

The other issue of course that definitely needs addressing is the inequality with regard to pay - noone can argue with that.

Prufrock Thu 10-Mar-05 12:41:43

I think the problem is that the male centric workforce assumes "challenging" to mean "working for a lot of hours" rather than "working inteeligently".

flashingnose Thu 10-Mar-05 12:42:34

That's true.

Gobbledigook Thu 10-Mar-05 12:43:36

ahhh yes, I think you're right

flashingnose Thu 10-Mar-05 13:12:50

I guess the thing is, it would do everyone, male and female so much good to get away from the long hours culture we have in this country. I would love a job that really taxed my brain that I could do between 10am and 2pm and which never required me to work overtime. Trouble is, do they exist??

MrsBigD Thu 10-Mar-05 13:35:50

probably not Unless of course you're a novelist/writer

As for male dominated and working intelligently... contractiction in terms ? {miow}

alicatsg Thu 10-Mar-05 13:46:28

god how annoying.

mind you there is no way in hell I could do this job if DH hadn't decided to take a career break and be with ds. I've already worked 48 hours this week because it was needed and I'm being bullied into attending a pointless drinks thing here tonight as well.

The downside is that I have to keep working now - I'm the money machine. sobs, I wanna be glamourous sex goddess instead!!


Bramshott Thu 10-Mar-05 13:46:29

I work in the arts, and was INSENSED a few months ago to read a comment by someone who was supposed to be representing arts workers saying "musicians don't really have a problem with childcare, as most work in the evening when a partner would normally be at home to look after the children". Clearly this is cr*p, as how many people working in 'normal' jobs get home by 6.30pm, and how many musicians can blithely swan out of the door at that point and pop down the road to do a concert? Much more likely to be driving from London to Birmingham, with 2pm rehearsal, 8pm concert, then back home sometime between 1am and 2am.

What made me so cross, was that this guy was supposed to be representing the views of musicians with children, but had clearly given the practicalities NOT A MOMENT'S THOUGHT.

Phew, rant over! Sorry about the capitals!!

MrsBigD Thu 10-Mar-05 13:59:59

I sympathise with you my parents were both opera singers back when my brother and I were young (a long long time ago ). So there was no partner at home to look after the children as they usually had rehearsals/performances at the same time
In those days parents had no qualms though to leave kids unattended once asleep... our babysitters usually disappeared after a few hours of us being asleep. Unthinkable nowadays though!

motherinferior Thu 10-Mar-05 14:12:31

God, Bramshott, what an ARSE.

And Kanazawa too.

Don't know if I count as a 'writer', btw, but no I can't do my job between 10am and 2pm - not if I ever want to have any time/flexibility available to interview anyone, which is a fairly fundamental thing even for journalists like me who manage to do rather a lot of their work from home.

oliveoil Thu 10-Mar-05 14:18:08

Agree on the some, there is no way I could have done my old job and had children, what with long hours, stress etc. I wanted a job I could leave as I collected my coat on the way out.

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