Zimbabwe power sharing deal agreed (apparently)(12 Posts)
is it too much to dream that things may actually start to move forwards (albeit very slowly so long as Mugabe is still there at all)......
the people on the ground in zim are not holding their breaths thats for sure. I have somehow managed to keep in touch with my sponsered child over there through intermediaries in zambia. I lost touch initially as her village was forced off its land onto newly 'liberated' farms and so lost the school, health clinic etc that had been built. my friend who works for the zambian government youth ministry did find her and keeps me in touch and according to the ''underground'' zim information channels, people are excited and full of hope, but don't expect things to change much
I disagree - I'm still in regular(ish) email contact with my IL's (or should I say future Ex-IL's) most of who are still living over there. They're not expecting things to change any time soon - but they do know that a power sharing deal would be (as the article says) financial help coming in from outside the country - which in turn (with MDC have majority seats in Parliament) should start to help.
but the people I am in indirect contact with are the the people who have been thrown off their land etc, for them outside financial help means nothing, they know that the army is still under mugabes control and the veterans will still enjoy mugabes patronage. they also know that the tiniest slip and they will be the ones in the shit again with the army cracking down and beatings starting again. the feeling on the ground I have heard of is one of hope for the future but also many think this is just another trick by mugabe, to open up investment and aid, lure people in and then close the door again. everyone including me hope this is wrong and mugabe has realised that he can't go on as he was, but there will always be that but....... until a day in the future when the shadow has gone and the army becomes a tool of a democratic zimbabwe and not a dictators weapon
misi - my (soon to be) exFIL was beaten up recently.....so I think they have a damn good idea what is going on. Until march (when ex and I split) I went to the bank once a month to deposit money to an account in the UK, which then took a small commission and transferred the money over using black market rates which my IL's could then withdraw from their own personal accounts in order to buy essentials (when available in the shops)
Mugabe is too clever to use the army for the majority of the beatings, "war veteran" (who are younger than me) are the key "weapon" he uses and has been for the last 8/9yrs
faq, not sure what the argument is here, I did say the vets will enjoy mugabes patronage and is one of the major reasons the people I am in contact with are wary of anything that will happen. until the army becomes a tool of a democratic government (not while mugabe is around for sure) the army will either do nothing or very little to curb the vets beatings (by the way, my foster kid's dad was killed not just beaten up by the vets when they were forced from their land and her aunt was raped and beaten and patience herself narrowly avoided being raped even though she is only 14 cos one of her uncles hid her and took a beating for it).
the view seems to be that although morgan will be in power (which as far as I know is not set in stone yet) the vets and mugabes cronies still control the industry, non government institutions and workforce, so foreign investment will go to them as it has done before unless foreign aid is specifically targeted and I am sure you will know how difficult this will be. mugabe would not give up power like this unless he had a plan, it is that plan that many on the street, in the fields and the homeless are worried about and sceptical about. I am glad your IL's have access to a bank and money like that, the people I am in contact with have no such thing, no bank accounts (no banks for 100's of miles even) no money, they live day to day. they have no protection of the cities or big towns, these are the people who have been spread out by mugabe and are extremely vulnerable to the slightest wind change. if and when mugabe is no longer able to dictate orders and the army finds itself without a patron can democracy be in most peoples minds. the generals have said they will not allow morgan to be in power, so there has to be some sort of plan here, the vets may be the overt thugs who do most of the dirty work, but the army has the real power, the guns, the tanks etc.
misi - please don't assume to know the personal circumstances of my IL's and close friends that I have still living over there. There are many that were part of the MDC in it's early days who I have no idea whether they are alive or dead - and indeed may never know.
I can assure you that even those that live in the remote villages have access to the money which 100'000's of Zimbabweans living overseas send regularly - I@m fully aware that "banks" are 100's of kms apart from each other - but the black market does not thrive solely on the use of "official" channels.....
Mugabe is slowly realising he has to relinquish some of his grip - because many of his closest "allies" (or cronies) have turned away from him or are turning away from him.
He no longer has the close support within his own party that he used to have and several of his closest allies (that he still has) have been uring him to sign a power sharing deal.
faq, I still do not understand what your arguments are about especially the bit about the personal circumstances of your inlaws, I do find our replies quite strange considering we are all on the same side here. you told the story of your inlaws, I told you the story of the people I am in regular contact with. obviously there will be differences, but what I can tell you is that even the zimbabweans themselves still do not know what the deal actually is, but they do know mugabe is still in control of the army and the gernerals are loyal to him as without him they are stuffed.
oh and by the way, I can assure you that very few people in rural areas have access to money and banks etc. the black market is strong yes, but controlled in most instances by people who take advantage. I no longer send money to patience, I send her food and clothes and utensils via my zambian friends who smuggle it direct (but not just my contributions, that of many others too).
please dopn't bother to reply if it is going to be of a personal nature, everyone has different stories to tell and different perspectives, but when you take it personally the argument is not worth the hassle inthe grand scheme of things given the suffering my friends are enduring every day
oh well I guess my friends and relatives must have been lying to me in recent emails then and what I've seen with my own eyes I must have imagined.
faq, you must have spent a long time over there recently then for you to see what is going on in the whole country? zimbabwe is a large country and difficult to get around but I am sure that you must have seen the rural areas that my friends live in for you to be able to comment on like this?
I will not answer you anymore faq as you apparently have some problem with other peoles views and experiences.
but your arguments do ring a bell, ah thats it, only one view of a small group of people allowed,
I have only commented on my friends experiences, you are obviously not pro mugabe and I still do not understand your animosity on this thread so I would usually ask if you would care to elaborate your views, but to be honest, I don't care when they are of the blinkered variety
I am only pointing out that my information is direct from family and friends who live there, and yes they are scattered all over the country - including Matabeland North (which is where I'm guessing your sponsored child lives if they're getting stuff from Zambia), living everywhere from makeshift villages, to townships, up to reasonable areas of Harare and Gweru.
It's been 2yrs since I was last there, so yes things have changed but not dramatically so, food was scarce in the shops them, petrol was hard to get hold of, inflation wasn't any where as high as it is now, but as was enough for prices to be increasing on a daily basis, now prices increas on an hourly basis, but most Zimbabweans hardly notice this as most can't afford a loaf of bread of pint of milk anyhow.
I'm afraid you did rather hit a nerve when you commented on your foster kids father being killed, as I frequently wonder what happened to many of my good friends.
If you'd read my first post properly you'd see that I expected things to move forward very slowly - and in your first post you commented that people were "excited and full of hope" - of course they don't expect things to change very much in the immidiate future, they're not stupid - they know it takes time.
Oh - and with MDC having a majority in parliament the chances of the money filtering to Mugabes Cronies and allies is a lot slimmer than if they didn't have the majority.
ok, your info is direct, as is mine, direct except the letters are passed via an intermediary as they have no access to phones or to postal services.
and yes my first post did say full of hope but also said they don't expect things to change much.
my foster daughter in zimbabwe that I am still in contact with is from masvingo (about 40 miles outside masvingo town) and some of her family are still there but she and some others are now in the hwange area and will hopefully be on the zambian side of victoria falls in the next few weeks if all goes well. we are still trying to locate my foster 'son' who was in chiredzi. my ex G/f's family are thankfully all in south africa now, they got out a couple of years ago to PE but obviously they lost everything in the material sense but got away with their lives as they were told they were on a 'hit list'.
all I hope then is that your thoughts that with the MDC in majority in parliament are correct, foreign ivnvestors and foreign government aid donors are not so sure at this moment, but with mugabe in control of the cabinet and morgan in control of the council of ministers and effectively subordinate to the cabinet, even allies of morgan fear that this is a repeat of the nkomo pact many years ago. I hope with every breath that mugabe is about to sign the end of his tyranny and that the people can once again live in peace and freedom, we shall see tomorrow what the deal is, but I still believe that that will only begin to happen when mugabe is no longer around, and at 84, that may be sooner rather than later
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