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Artistic or "revolting";? - photographs of naked children

(34 Posts)
Spink Fri 11-Jul-08 21:18:07

just wondering if anyone else was interested in this news story news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7492579.stm - Kevin Rudd (Aussie PM) has been speaking out about art involving photographs of naked children..
I was curious about what exactly he thought was "revolting" about the Henson pictures, and what he "couldn't stand" about the one in the article.

vixma Fri 11-Jul-08 21:47:23

I would like to support the mother who took a picture of her daughter 11 naked, but I am sure if another person took or created the picture, it may not be deemed artistic, she would not have the same attitude. Just because they do not deem it sexual does not mean others wont . Is this protecting your child. Even if this is a mature 11 year old, she is not old enough to activly make this choice as I am assuming she see her mum as a role model. As a mum I would not do this of my child, and I am concerned she is trying to get attention to her work by using her daughter. I have not seen this work, it maybe great! Not my cup of tea, although I like photography and art.

Spink Sat 12-Jul-08 11:13:53

I don't really how I feel about it. I guess it makes me a bit sad that nakedness (in children) can't be just that, that our society often ties it in with sexuality and so depravity.

I know that some people will find naked photos of children sexual, but actually some people will find bare legs sexual. So I suppose for me it brings up that 'where do you draw the line' question that doesn't have a straightforward answer..

edam Sat 12-Jul-08 11:16:41

Sexual exploitation my arse. The only exploitation is in the minds of the beholder - so Rudd and that batty woman from the Childhood Federation should take a look at their own psyches before inflicting their dirty minds on the rest of us.

violentviolet Sat 12-Jul-08 12:25:21

Well, personally I think it's really depressing when common sense is thrown out of the window like this. Artists have been painting and photographing children for centuries, because they are perfect, and they're beautiful. There is a difference between nude and "naked"- nude makes it art.

I think it's clear to see when an image of any kind is indecent or intended to be erotic, and I think that that is entirely unacceptable when the subject is a child, but it's ridiculous to say every image of an unclothed child ever published is a no-go zone fgs. Soon they'll start saying it's illegal to own ANY pictures of any child naked at all ever, even pics of your newborn having his first bath. hmm

The constant media scaremongering about pedophilia makes it sound like there's ten in every street, it's got everybody scared to death, it's ridiculous, even Esther Rantzen wrote about how it has got out of hand the other day in the DM, perhaps in some vain attempt to dampen down the hysteria. Children definitely, definitely need to be protected, but somewhere along the line it seems to have been forgotten that we normal people are the vast majority, not the minority.

Spink Sat 12-Jul-08 14:43:24

VV, i agree with you.
Where it does get confusing (for me) is the point at which an image becomes "indecent or intended to be erotic" or how it's decided what is 'naked' and what is 'nude'- of course it's easy to identify things at the extremes, but the middle bit is harder.
in any case, I don't think it is for politicians to make that call hmm

Amphibimum Sat 12-Jul-08 14:51:43

all the hysteria about peadophiles is utterly hypocritical, as demonstrated by that case recently of the high society bloke who turned out to be a sadistic predator of young children, and what coverage have we seen of that eh? he was defended in court by something like 23 distinguished people making positive character statements. i mean, wtf? its like its 'string them all up... but only if they wear dirty macs and fit a profile, and certainly not if theyre well to do and polished'. sick.

Monkeytrousers Sat 12-Jul-08 14:51:57

this is the photo.

I fail to see the eroticism that Rudd saw.

maidamess Sat 12-Jul-08 14:53:17

Looks like Bjork

MaryAnnSingleton Sat 12-Jul-08 14:54:53

sally mann this photographer got into bother too with photographs of her children..I think they are hauntingly beautiful

hatrick Sat 12-Jul-08 14:55:00

Message withdrawn

MaryAnnSingleton Sat 12-Jul-08 14:56:26

yep, Australian one is a bit odd and like a bad painting, which might be the intention.

FrannyandZooey Sat 12-Jul-08 14:56:33

oh it's a strange picture IMO
her face looks really quite adult, doesn't it? or is that just me
it's an interesting picture, but I am not sure if I really feel comfortable about it
it looks as if she may be wearing make up and the pose is not an un-self-conscious naked child pose IMO

FrannyandZooey Sat 12-Jul-08 14:57:52

The Sally mann ones are extraordinary

Monkeytrousers Sat 12-Jul-08 15:01:59

They are v artistic imo. Why not explore the beauty of adoleseance and the moment of 'budding' becasue of a very few [perverts?

MaryAnnSingleton Sat 12-Jul-08 15:03:29

this one I really like

nooka Sat 12-Jul-08 15:05:55

I think that is a very peculiar picture. It certainly does not look like a six year old - very adult, and slightly disturbing. Not revolting though, or erotic. The Sally Mann ones are beautiful, but I don't like the one of the girl under the gum tree because it looks too adult. I guess it is a very fine line.

nooka Sat 12-Jul-08 15:06:43

That last pic is really fab. I'd love to have pictures of my children of that quality.

MaryAnnSingleton Sat 12-Jul-08 15:08:55

I'd find the one of Sally Mann's 12 yr old a little more difficult simply because she is almost not a child..at 12 yrs old I would have been very self conscious and lived in an anorak for fear of anyone noticing my body ( and I was flat chested until 13)

Spink Sat 12-Jul-08 15:10:34

MAS, that one is beautiful.
F&Z, I know - I don't feel totally comfortable with it either.
But then I suppose art is supposed to provoke thought, and to make you examine your reactions. That image does challenge our (naive/stereotyped?) ideas that children ARE totally innocent, that they shouldn't be knowing, and that those things might be 'bad'.

hatrick Sat 12-Jul-08 15:10:48

Message withdrawn

Bronze Sat 12-Jul-08 15:13:32

I agree Hatrick I love the one of the three childre. You can just picture them running wild on a moor somewhere being children.

Monkeytrousers Sat 12-Jul-08 15:15:06

I think it's lovely. How many of us have a pictue that totally captures the moment in our life when we are half child/half woman?

If we are going to be worried about the dirty mac brigade we should ban all nappy ads that show babies bums too.

FairyMum Sat 12-Jul-08 15:23:00

I think the Sally Mann photos are beautiful. Was she the one who got in a lot of trouble in the UK a couple of years ago?

Children are sexual beings. I think the problem is for adults who don't know how to react to childrens sexuality.

Monkeytrousers Sat 12-Jul-08 15:26:53

That's a good point. It's the adults tyhat need to take responsibility for their feelings, not ban kids from exploring their sexuality as if we were wild beasts incapable of controling ourselves...now that I think about it, is that the subtext here? That men (not just paedos) are not to be trusted with such blatent images of burgeoning sexuality, even when they barely conform to mature sexuality?

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