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Anti-stab workshops for children, but 16 year old young people cannot help Woman's Institute wash up without every volunteer being police checked. Madness or what?

(20 Posts)
seekinginspiration Sat 21-Jun-08 17:52:41

We have been told that 15 and 16 year olds cannot help the Woman's Institute wash up without every volunteer being police checked at a cost of over £30 for each CRB. Madness or what?

I've checked it out with the D of E people, and yes it is true. Britain has gone bonkers when our legislation will not allow older children to become socially responsible. At 15 and 16 children should be able to be trained to deal with life and hot water. I'd be gobsmacked, if any of the W.I or their husbands would flirt with a volunteer, but even if they did, Britain needs to get a grip. Don't moan about the lazy youth, STOP WRAPPING GOOD YOUNGSTERS UP IN COTTON WOOL... let them help.

BBC Saturday 21st June Anti-stab workshops for children, More than 10 teenagers have been stabbed to death in London this year. Children as young as 10 are taking lessons in how to avoid being stabbed. Specially adapted self-defence classes are being run by a martial arts school at All Souls Clubhouse in Camden, north London, for 10 to 16-year-olds. The workshops will teach youngsters how to deal with confrontations and advise them to run away from potential attackers or hand over their property.
A total of 16 teenagers have died as a result of violent crime in London since the beginning of the year.

TheArmadillo Sat 21-Jun-08 17:54:02

I don't get why you've put the 2 together. They are 2 totally seperate issues.

seekinginspiration Sat 21-Jun-08 18:11:00

I've put the two topics together to highlight the gap between the policy maker's view of a child's world and reality. In reality 10 year old children need to know how to avoid being stabbed but the policy maker's of Britain perceive the threat of sexual molestation whilst washing up in a church hall or community building to be more likely. I"VE PUT THE TWO TOGETHER BECAUSE I"M FED UP WITH STUPID POLICY MAKERS!!! Have you tried getting volunteers lately? Its bl**dy impossible, and no I'm not in the W.I. just trying to help get volunteers.

KatyMac Sat 21-Jun-08 18:13:44

I completely got the 2 being together

And agree it's bizarre to be a child/teenager currently

TheArmadillo Sat 21-Jun-08 18:17:56

16 children have died as a result of violent crime in London since the beginning of the year - how many children/teens do you think have been molested in that time? Unfortunately it is more likely they will be molested rather than stabbed.

Whether CRB checks actually provide much protection is another issue, but until they can provide something better they are here to stay.

Guess waht members of the WI/community groups can molest children too.

KatyMac Sat 21-Jun-08 18:20:15

But if one person is CRB checked & stays with the children

Or one per child?

Why everyone?

seekinginspiration Sat 21-Jun-08 18:36:12

I no longer feel angry with the policy makers, I now feel sad that so far Armadillo has read my rant and yet truly, honestly and objectively believes that the risk of adults (male or female) who volunteer at fetes and events are so likely to develop an unhealthy sexual relationship with a 15 year old or 16 year old that we, Society, Adults, Policy makers must prevent all volunteers over 16 doing any work with people under 16 unless they have a CRB, I despair...

TheArmadillo Sat 21-Jun-08 19:08:19

woohoo I'm being patronised.


Greyriverside Sat 21-Jun-08 19:13:09

Between government and the tabloids 'Everyone knows' that every second person you meet is a molester. This is where we are now and it is crazy. It has no basis in reality.

It makes you wonder how the kids got by before with this huge army of potential attackers chasing them night and day.

It's odd to hear that it applies to the WI now as for some time 'everybody knew' that it was only evil men who were a risk.

The other daft thing is that we're talking about 16 year olds. I started work at 15. I was an adult and I looked after myself. Has all the protection and pampering I read about on MN turned 16 year olds into helpless children?

JacobsPrincess Sat 21-Jun-08 19:18:46

CRB checks are not worth the paper they are written on. They don't tell you if the person is a molesterer (sp?), only that they haven't been caught yet!
I'm a teacher and EVERY parent who comes into scool to volunteer has to be CRB checked, even if it's for half an hour a week to hear the kids read. We've even been asked to consider having everybody in the PTA or who is running a stall at our Summer Fete CRB checked. RIDICULOUS!

BetteNoire Sat 21-Jun-08 19:26:01

It's because of fear of litigation as much as an attempt to protect children.

And of course, CRB check fees are a nice little earner for the government.

FluffyMummy123 Sat 21-Jun-08 19:27:05

Message withdrawn

spicemonster Sat 21-Jun-08 19:29:44

But these aren't small children cod - if they're 16, they can legitimately have a sexual relationship with anyone they choose can't they?

Whizzz Sat 21-Jun-08 19:32:01

Sorry - being a bit dense here, who needs the CRB checks, the 15/16 year old or the people they are working with?

KatyMac Sun 22-Jun-08 00:59:50

The people they are working with

So all those ladies in the WI who volunteer need CRB checks because 15 & 16 yos also want to volunteer

stickybun Tue 24-Jun-08 11:28:20

If my 15 or 16 year old child wanted to wash-up for the W.I. I would be happy to provide them with a note authorising them to do so and stating that I was happy for no-one to be CRB checked. At 15 or 16 you need to start thinking for yourself and taking some risks and responsibility - it is crazy and imho all part of ridiculous state micro-management that this govt. has grown to love. It stops people thinking and taking responsibility for their own actions. I can see the point in CRB checking people who routinely care for those who might be considered vulnerable i.e. the very young, elderly, people who are in some way incapacitated. All this does is destroy trust and social capital - so, if these young people are washing up for the W.I. they are at risk but not likely to be treated as such if found smoking dodgy substances or getting trashed on booze with mates?? We need to start demolishing this nonsense by not complying with it rather than asking how high we should be jumping. Good luck.

Matey1 Sat 12-Jul-08 04:29:25

Hi not to be rude but I think people are getting a little confused with government guidance and employers/companies own policies perceptions of the law and guidance.

Under the DFES published document ‘Safeguarding Children and Safer Recruitment in Education’ which came into force on the 1st January 2007 it is not a requirement for parents to get checked it is down to the Head of the school to make this decision in these instances. Governors and PTA members are normally recommended to be checked because they may have some level of control over functions in and around the school and where they are held.

Volunteers needing CRB checks do not Pay the CRB any fees for their checks, therefore if a volunteer does incur a charge then this is Registered Body or employer that is putting on an admin fee.

The CRB does not recommend anyone under the age of 16 having a CRB checks and if they are in secondary school and are going into a work placement with a nursery, a school or care setting with children or vulnerable people then again they do not require a CRB check.

If a child goes into a work experience placement then it is recommended to the school that one supervising person or Chaperone within that organisation has a CRB check carried out on them. Even if the chaperone is a paid individual, because the role they carrying out is a voluntary one for which they receive no extra money or benefit then they would also be classified as a volunteer, because they only require a CRB for a voluntary role of supporting a work experience student.

Some may think CRB are over the top, but to be honest its not them taking it the extremes because its more often than not employers who don’t understand or haven’t read the guidance and are therefore applying for inappropriate checks on their staff.

I think you will also find that the CRB or central government recently published that about 60,000-70,000 people have been denied employment with children or vulnerable people since the CRB began checking people. This is a small percentage compared to the millions of people that have been checked, but personally I feel a lot better knowing that the people that are looking after my kids at school and nursery have had these checks done and worry when like mad when they go on these field trips to help educate them as those people aren’t required to have CRB checks.

If anyone has read the Bichard Enquiry and recommendations after the Soham murders, the one of the findings I think I recall was that people that are a danger to children and the vulnerable are applying for jobs within non regulated environments and in regulated environments in roles such as cleaners and gardeners. I’m not trying to say that we should automatically presume that everyone is a sex offender and it’s a sad state of affairs that we have to take these precautions, but quite frankly I don’t even want to contemplate the implications of not doing these checks, because I have a family and I cant even contemplate hearing about another Soham.

I will make a quick comment about the knife crime, the NHS I think just published within the last week that approx 14,000 people were admitted to hospital within the last year with stab wounds and most of which were not reported to the Police. I think the real issue that everyone seems to be avoiding is where the kids are buying these knives from! Well I can tell you, shops that are not asking for ID and that are for some reason allowed to sell these pointless devices and the other place is over the internet. Has anyone looked at the auction sites, just log and take a look on some of these UK sites you can buy Swords, Machetes, fake guns and every Knife imaginable, its quite frankly appalling that its legal to sell them.

Thanks for reading my comments.

SqueakyPop Sat 12-Jul-08 05:39:08

I am not shocked that WI members are being asked to be CRB checked. Dodgy characters like to associate themselves with 'nice' organisations, so that they can go about their business relatively unchecked. This is harder for them to do if they are under more scrutiny, eg by having to do a CRB check.

A CRB only flashes up convictions, but the act of filling out the form does establish identity as well.

It's not that big a deal to do the forms. I've done about a dozen in the last couple of years, and it really is quite painless. And it's free for volunteers.

Our Diocesan policy is if you help out with children's work more than once a term, you need to do a CRB check. We have a further policy that there must be at least two adults (male and female) with any children's group.

Child protection policies are there to protect the adults as well. Some children do like to make false accusations.

spottyshoes Sat 12-Jul-08 06:28:18

Bravo matey1 <applaudes>. Excellent post.

shock at auction sites though angry

Matey1 Sat 12-Jul-08 13:27:36

It has already been proven that kids are able to buy things form these online sites that they are not normally able to, because you don’t need a credit or debit card, just a bank account. If you don’t believe me then take a look for yourself. Please note I am not picking on the company they are simply providing a service, its the people that are selling these things online and from the shop somewhere in the Uk. Can you really tell me that what is being sold on here has any purpose in real life.

You will need to put one 'H' back in the htp: at the beginning to get the link below to work.



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