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Terrorists losing British Citizenship

(215 Posts)
hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 18:57:08

Why is this news? Stripping terrorists of citizenship?

Surely the day a person decides they are happy to kill or maim their citizens in the name of terrorism they have lost their right to stake a claim to that citizenship?

This isn't a loss of their human rights. They forgo that when they choose to rob others of their human rights surely?

Fuck off and be a citizen of the people you support.

BeardedMum Sun 18-Aug-19 18:59:15

Not sure on this. These seem to be people who have been vulnerable and left the Uk for Syria when they were quite young teens. It does not sit well with me to be honest.

Weezol Sun 18-Aug-19 19:02:10

There has to be some kind of consequence. I'm sure nobody feels that inner city youths who rob/burgle/stab/deal drugs etc should be given a lolly and sent home.

8by8 Sun 18-Aug-19 19:08:56

The news today is about Jack Letts, who was a vulnerable teenager with significant mental health problems when he went abroad.

The news last time was about Shamima Begum, who was a teenage girl, groomed online, when she went.

I suspect the majority of people who went from the uk were vulnerable in some way.

A little compassion for them and their families would be good. Stripping their citizenship just prevents them coming back to their families and homes where they could get some support with their issues.

hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 19:12:51

Yes let's support them then. And when they blow up a packed stadium of children let's support them.
When they drive a car into innocent people let's support them.
When they stab people protecting parliament let's support them.
Good idea. They definitely need our support.

Most terrorists are recruited because they are susceptible?

timshelthechoice Sun 18-Aug-19 19:13:16

I don't see how this can be legal since Jack was born in the UK to a British mother. He has Canadian nationality only through descent because his father is Canadian. He is not a naturalised British citizen.

hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 19:14:53

Ok I'm in a minority clearly.

I taught my (vulnerable special needs) son right from wrong.

We need to support our poor terrorists. Ok.

ArnoldBee Sun 18-Aug-19 19:16:50

He's still Canadian so apparently they will be looking out for him.

titchy Sun 18-Aug-19 19:17:28

I taught my (vulnerable special needs) son right from wrong.

Well lucky you that his SN haven't manifested in a way that means they can't determine right from wrong. hmm

I suspect if your ds developed paranoid schizophrenia and attacked someone he wrongly thought was trying to kill him you'd feel different.

timshelthechoice Sun 18-Aug-19 19:17:36

But let's not fool ourselves about 'support' for their issues. There's precious little of that even for children born here who are vulnerable and ill without having gone to Syria and joined IS.

And if the person is naturalised, well, yes, your nationality can be revoked for criminality. If Mr Letts is a naturalised citizen he may have his British nationality revoked following his time in jail and be forced to return to Canada.

HavelockVetinari Sun 18-Aug-19 19:17:43

I think it depends on the individual. Shamima Begum was a child when she was groomed, she has lost 3 children including a newborn, and didn't engage in any fighting. It's not acceptable to hold her as accountable as an adult for her behaviour.

Jack Letts - I'm not sure. I don't know enough about him.

MrsTerryPratchett Sun 18-Aug-19 19:19:53

They forgo that when they choose to rob others of their human rights surely?

No they don't. Either human rights are for everyone or they aren't worth the bother.

I don't like the idea of second class citizens who can lose their citizenship and first class (with only one) who can't. Having grades of citizenship is fundamentally wrong.

Pretending this is 'supporting' terrorists is nonsense. It's supporting the basic and fundamental ideals of civilisation. They don't but I still do.

Bumbags Sun 18-Aug-19 19:19:56

Jack Letts has dual citizenship......British and Canadian.

He’s been stripped of British citizenship as it’s not legal to allow someone to have no citizenship at all.

Canada are now responsible for him and are not happy.

hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 19:21:05

Sorry I lost a colleague in the London terror attacked so maybe I'm less forgiving.

I shall bow out .

Clearly the consensus is to allow our home bred terrorists to do what the fuck they like with no consequences.

meditrina Sun 18-Aug-19 19:23:49

You cannot strip,someone of citizenship if that would keave then stateless (there's a UN convention on this, and the last time UK just removed citizenship willynilly was WW2 - ie before the UN was founded)

Stripping it from dual nationals or those known to be entitled to a different nationality is however permissible, and has happened in several hundred cases

MrsTerryPratchett Sun 18-Aug-19 19:24:40

Sorry about your friend.

8by8 Sun 18-Aug-19 19:28:11

And Shamima Begum has been stripped of British citizenship even though she has no other citizenship, so has been left stateless which violates international law.

Saucery Sun 18-Aug-19 19:30:21

It does seem unfair that it can only happen when there is dual citizenship, so I’d rather it wasn’t used at all. If there isn’t dual citizenship then we have to address rehabilitation and we could probably learn a lot.

hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 19:36:40

I all for rehabilitation. I don't think our prison system works and we could learn so much from the Nordic model

I also think we need to legalise drugs and treat addiction as a medical matter rather than a criminal one

But I do think terrorists who chose to actively go abroad to kill shouldn't necessarily be able to call themselves British citizens if an alternative is there .

Jihadi Jack? Is that like jihadi John who
Cut the heads off humanitarian workers who strayed into their path?

If we can get rid we should . Sorry but I see no reason to remain responsible for people so devoid of humanity.

Winterlife Sun 18-Aug-19 19:41:01

He's still Canadian so apparently they will be looking out for him.

I'm Canadian, and I would have no issues with him arriving here. However, Jack Letts has no significant ties to Canada. He wasn't born here, he never lived here. I doubt he is a threat.

I think stripping citizens of their citizenship is a coward's way out. I can see if for naturalized citizens, but not for citizens born to a British parent in the UK. Jail them for their crimes, then rehabilitate them. If they can't be rehabilitated, keep them in jail.

PamelaTodd Sun 18-Aug-19 19:41:05

I don’t think it’s acceptable for one state to dump its problem citizens on another state.

CherryPavlova Sun 18-Aug-19 19:41:34

I’m not sure why losing a colleague makes any difference; we lost one of our young staff in Tavistock Square in 2005. An absolute tragedy.

I think Shamima Begum was a child who was groomed. It was child abuse to persuade her to travel to Syria. She aligned with terrorist but there is no evidence she did anything personally to harm others. She’s a teenager who lost three babies because of the conditions they were born into. It’s terribly sad. I’m not sure removing citizenship and forcing her to a refugee camp is going to bring about any healing or de radicalisation. I would rather have her bought back and supported through education and compassion in a secure environment to try and rehabilitate.
Love, kindness and education are always going to trump hatred and revenge.

hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 19:43:54

It seems unfair it can only be done with dual citizenship?

I'm all for taking whatever advantage we have

One more gone . Fabulous.

Sorry I just have zero sympathy. Ask any parent if the Manchester bombing if they do.
Any person affected by the London beige attack I'd they do
Any person affected by the 7/7 bombing of they do

I feel all answers are coming from folk who are not at the sharp end of this . Forgive my sweeping generalisation there .

hellenbackagen Sun 18-Aug-19 19:46:11

Ok I accept I'm in the minority.

AngelasAshes Sun 18-Aug-19 19:51:10

I’m with OP. Strip their citizenship and let them stand trial for war crimes.
Jack Letts is JIhadi Jack. He is on camera beheading a journalist Foley. He has done numerous other executions while in ISIS. He is dangerous and should not be allowed back. I hope he is executed in Syria for his war crimes.
Shamima Begum...also should be stripped of citizenship. She has claim to Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother. Yes she was young when she left, BUT she has admitted to fitting suicide vests to suicide bombers and was also a female member of the ISIS morality police beating and terrorising Yazidi women captured to be sex slaves. She’s no innocent.
These people have chosen to side with an enemy army that has engaged in numerous atrocities and war crimes. They were active contributors...not innocents captured by ISIS.

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