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Another woman murdered with sex used as the defence

(29 Posts)
ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 11-Apr-19 10:46:38

Here we go again. This seems to be the go to defence now when men murder their partners. All he has to do is say “we had sex”. Thankfully this case seems to be being properly investigated.

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/brit-woman-anna-florence-reed-16112171

Badwifey Thu 11-Apr-19 10:50:57

Poor girl. I hope they amend the charges. Surely the screaming heard from other guests along with multiple fractures is evidence enough she was murdered.

Bookworm4 Thu 11-Apr-19 10:54:02

A sex game gone wrong? But found on bathroom floor? Is this how men get out of a murder charge?

ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 11-Apr-19 11:03:48

Yes bookworm. This is how they’re doing it now. The magic word is “sex”. Because we all know that sex is the riskiest thing a woman can do so if she dies it’s no-one’s fault. Certainly not the fault man who choked her.

BixBeiderbecke Thu 11-Apr-19 11:05:24

Yes what sex game involves multiple fractures?

ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 11-Apr-19 11:07:44

If you don’t come away with finger bruises on your throat you’re just vanilla as hell. And that’s the worst thing a girl can be accused of. (I’m reading SM comments- I know I shouldn’t but it’s good to know what we’re up against)

GodDammitAmy Thu 11-Apr-19 11:19:41

Yes, I had seen this in the DM and came on here to start a thread. It's horrific that this happens. And people seem to accept it without question!

ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 11-Apr-19 11:22:20

That’s what terrifies me God. If I were to be murdered by a man and he claimed it was during “rough sex” or a “sex game” would my parents mourn with him? Would people hug him and say “sorry for your loss” because “that sometimes happens during sex” now in the 21st century, death is a risk of sex- for women.

Bouledeneige Thu 11-Apr-19 11:23:24

People in the neighbouring rooms heard them arguing. It wont go well for him that he obviously lied in such a heinous way to cover his actions.
Disgusting.

And women should be warned who have men in their lives who want rough sex that they might just see death as an excusable risk associated with it.

64sNewName Thu 11-Apr-19 11:23:56

Sometimes I wonder how any woman makes it past her twenties in this world.

Sometimes I just want to burn everything.

OddBoots Thu 11-Apr-19 11:27:17

It's about time sex became an aggravating factor not a defence.

It's not my thing but I knew there are people who like BDSM and related activities in their sex lives but if that is something you want to be involved in then that should give you even more responsibility for keeping your partner/s safe not remove responsibility.

ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 11-Apr-19 11:35:24

Exactly oddboots! You choose to do something incredibly risky to your partner, then you are assuming responsibility for what happens- if that means they die then you accepted that responsibility by choosing to do the thing. That means you go to prison for murder because that’s the risk you took. Not them.

Caedmon89 Thu 11-Apr-19 16:06:51

They're intending to charge him with premeditated murder, he's not getting away with anything.

Of course he's going to try say it was a sex game but what judge and jury are going to see cuts and broken bones and think it just got a bit outta hand? C'mon.

Theninjawhinger Thu 11-Apr-19 16:14:38

This chilled me. I had a thread on here recently about my ex hitting me and wondering if this was justified because we had a bdsm relationship. The boundaries got so blurred for me, it’s such a dangerous slippery slope with the wrong person.

ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 11-Apr-19 16:28:22

Yes caedmon, like I said, it looks like theyre investigating this case properly.

but what judge and jury are going to see cuts and broken bones and think it just got a bit outta hand? C'mon.

You’re being incredibly naive.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter Thu 11-Apr-19 16:37:37

@Caedmon89 did you not read about Natalie Connolly and how she was found dead at the hands of her boyfriend with over 40 injuries lying in a pool of blood and the trigger of a carpet cleaner snapped inside her?! Was he found guilty of murder? Of course not, it was 'rough sex' hmm

Open your eyes!

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig Thu 11-Apr-19 16:42:05

Sex games my fucking elbow. Assault, rape and murder more like. Fucking cunt, I hope he gets life.

Sorry but this makes me incandescent.

DpWm Fri 19-Apr-19 15:39:15

Bit late to this thread but if you haven't seen it here is a relevant site about this problem.

wecantconsenttothis.uk

sawdustformypony Sat 20-Apr-19 09:24:29

@Caedmon89 did you not read about Natalie Connolly and how she was found dead at the hands of her boyfriend with over 40 injuries lying in a pool of blood and the trigger of a carpet cleaner snapped inside her?! Was he found guilty of murder? Of course not, it was 'rough sex

She wasn't found dead at the hands of her boyfriend. The evidence did not suggest, let alone prove, that the injuries he caused were life threatening. THAT was the reason why it wasn't murder.

Caedmon89 Sat 20-Apr-19 17:55:11

Reading the stories at wecantconsenttothis.uk the most blatantly vindictive murders are a result of meeting men and sleeping with them on the same day, if not within a couple hours. The remainder appear to be mostly women in unhealthy relationships (abusive partners and such) where I can fully believe both accidental and intentional narratives related to their deaths.

I think there are two things we need to address that could bring these incidents down; firstly we need to bring an end to this hookup culture, it only endangers women and when not straight up putting them at risk it's devaluing them.
Secondly we need to stop treating the need to be strangled during sex as normal. It's so commonplace now that people who don't know how to do these things 'safely' are being asked to choke their partners, tie them up, all sorts. Don't take these risks without the appropriate precautions/practice!

ticketsonsalenow Sat 20-Apr-19 18:23:58

What??? Are you for real? You say that we need to stop treating the need to be strangled during sex as normal Normal?

Since when was being strangled ever viewed as normal?

ILoveMaxiBondi Sat 20-Apr-19 18:30:54

the most blatantly vindictive murders are a result of meeting men and sleeping with them on the same day

Correction

the most blatantly vindictive murders are a result of meeting men who are murderers

Meeting a man and having sex with him that day doesn’t cause murder. It’s the man that causes the murder. Not the sex.

Caedmon89 Wed 24-Apr-19 10:37:22

@ticketsonsalenow

Yeah, not like we had a best-selling book series and hollywood film trilogy based on such activity is it.

prh47bridge Wed 24-Apr-19 12:01:34

She wasn't found dead at the hands of her boyfriend. The evidence did not suggest, let alone prove, that the injuries he caused were life threatening. THAT was the reason why it wasn't murder.

Indeed. Her blood alcohol level on its own was in the bracket where coma and death would be expected. She had also taken cocaine, amphetamines and poppers. One of the experts said he had never seen such high levels of alcohol and cocaine together. The prosecution could not rule out the possibility that the death was caused by the alcohol and drugs alone. For a murder conviction the prosecution would have to prove that her injuries contributed to her death. They were unable to do so.

There was a further problem in that the prosecution also needed to prove that there was intent to kill. One might think that the injuries clearly demonstrated intent but there are problems with that.

Most of the injuries were bruises. There was clear evidence from prosecution witnesses, including the victim's sister, that she enjoyed rough sex and proudly displayed the bruises she received from previous sex sessions. That undermines the bruises as evidence of intent to kill.

There was a more serious injury caused by a bottle being inserted in the victim's vagina. This caused arterial bleeding, probably when he tried to remove it. This may be GBH but it was consistent with an accident (if it was done with her consent, as he claimed) or sexual assault (if she did not consent).

Finally there were the head injuries. These were widely reported in the press as being caused by punches, as alleged by the prosecution. The problem is that the medical evidence advanced by the prosecution was that the injuries were consistent with the victim stumbling around in an intoxicated state and injuring herself. There is no proof whatsoever that her partner inflicted these injuries.

So the prosecution could not prove that the injuries caused or contributed to her death, nor could they prove that there was any intent to kill or cause serious injury. On the evidence, it seems to me that there was never any realistic chance of them securing a murder conviction. Instead they accepted a plea of manslaughter due to gross negligence - he didn't call for medical assistance despite her obvious injuries and gross intoxication. On the evidence that appears to be the right verdict. I note that the victim's family were entirely content with the prosecution's decision to accept the manslaughter plea and drop the murder charge.

ChristmasFluff Sun 26-May-19 16:34:00

Something that I have noticed over my many years of being in the BDSM scene has been how the 'choking' thing is now seen as totally normal in mainstream sex now, and women who don't do it are branded as 'vanilla' in a disparaging way.

Going back to the 80s (which is my main experience, as it happens), I didn't see women wanting choking, except as part of oral sex on a man - which they obviously had somewhat more control over, even as slaves. It was always men wanting it.

It seems to have been a recent (last 10 years) thing that women are 'supposed' to enjoy. Presumably due to the rise of online pornography and niche interests becoming mainstream.

Personally I see it as another way men are re-exerting their dominance as women fight to claim equality.

I would see a man trying to choke me during sex as an absolute dealbreaker (unless I had specifically asked, which I wouldn't), and I would hope all women would feel that way too.

ChristmasFluff Sun 26-May-19 16:36:23

Ooops, smoehow deleted where I said that the whole 'choking women during sex' thing 'going mainstream' has provided a great alibi for male murderers.

TemporaryPermanent Sun 26-May-19 16:46:02

I've recently discussed some sexual boundaries with a normal seeming man. He reports choking as something he's done and wanting it done to him. I've told him the airway is not a playground as far as I'm concerned. I agree it's incredibly odd that this truly stupid risk has become so normalised.

I am mildly comforted that this defence so rarely works.

BogglesGoggles Sun 26-May-19 16:49:42

@tocketsonsalenow it’s considered pretty normal amongst young people.

Graphista Sun 26-May-19 17:05:40

Puts British police and courts to shame that they're not buying such utter bollocks!

Personally such offenders should be charged with rape too!

"It's about time sex became an aggravating factor not a defence." Absolutely!

"It's not my thing but I knew there are people who like BDSM and related activities in their sex lives but if that is something you want to be involved in then that should give you even more responsibility for keeping your partner/s safe not remove responsibility."

It is my thing - I don't know anyone in the community that thinks the cases where women have ended up dead or seriously injured are remotely acceptable! With those of us that do practice it/enjoy it there is lots of discussion and safeguards put in place, irresponsible to do otherwise, not only for the sub but the master/mistress too as they don't need the hassle of being accused of stuff when they HAVEN'T done anything not consented to - and certain things can NEVER be consented to by anyone sensible.

"but what judge and jury are going to see cuts and broken bones and think it just got a bit outta hand? C'mon." The whole point of this thread is that in the uk there have been several cases where the victim sustained horrific injuries that judges and juries DID think "sex game gone wrong" justified!!

"the most blatantly vindictive murders are a result of meeting men and sleeping with them on the same day, if not within a couple hours. The remainder appear to be mostly women in unhealthy relationships (abusive partners and such) where I can fully believe both accidental and intentional narratives related to their deaths." Victim blaming misogynistic tripe!! Nothing wrong with women having casual sex, and abusive partners & their actions are not the responsibility of their victims!!

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