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Two terrrorists are doctors

(71 Posts)
suedonim Mon 02-Jul-07 06:53:28

It's being reported on the news that two of this weekend's terrorists are doctors. Whatever happened to their Hippocratic oath?

Bouncingturtle Mon 02-Jul-07 07:04:47

here

Absolutely shocking

suedonim Mon 02-Jul-07 07:06:18

.

suedonim Mon 02-Jul-07 07:08:07

Sorry, I forgot the link!

Biglips Mon 02-Jul-07 07:12:50

blimey!!!!

hippmummy Mon 02-Jul-07 07:15:36

Awful but not shocking. Doctors are only people, not gods, after all.

There were many doctors working for the Nazis in concentration camps

suedonim Mon 02-Jul-07 07:21:06

I think it seems more shocking because we've been conditioned to regard terrorists as young, disaffected youths with no future, kicking out at society.

Re Nazi dr's, I've just finished a book about the fall of Berlin. The bits about medical experiments turned my stomach.

Blandmum Mon 02-Jul-07 07:52:13

I don't think that doctors actually take the Hippocratic oath any more. Not that saying some words would change someone if they were crazy enough to be a suicide bomber.

Horrific though.

I have just read a very interesting book by a guy called Ed Hussain called the Islamist. It outlines how he went from being Muslim, to a fanatical Islamist, and back to being a very observant muslim. He makes a clear, practical distrinction between Muslims who practice a religion and Islamists who are essentialy a political movement who seek 'islamic' domination. It is an excellent book, nit at all anti Islam. But very anti Islamist.

fillyjonk Mon 02-Jul-07 08:09:55

don't see why it matters that they are doctors

i think the "they are all disaffected yoof" line is a rather comfortable myth. How do you think they are funded? This is a multi-million pound enterprise.

The only reason for them to be young, really, is that it'd be much harder to go and blow yourself up if you have a family, responsibilties etc, and of course, young men are rather gung ho and like to cause a macho stir. But they are just the frontsmen, they are not going to be the brains behind it all.

these people aren't there because of some ultra religious motive, not REALLY. That might be their individual motivation, but its not whats putting them there. They are blowing people up because of complex political forces, not least the tendancy of the west to bomb and fund the bombing of majority-Islam countries, the day to day Islamophobia experienced by many in Western countries. (but of course, WE are not terrorists, WE are justified ). THAT is what is attracting people to anti-Western, fundementalist Islam.

Its NOT as simple as being a case of a few angry youths wanting to take a pop at society, and until we realise THAT and act appropriately, and enter into a dialogue, we will not solve the problem. If the fact that they are doctors helps people realise that there are a lot of intelligent people with thought out arguements involved in this, then good, we might get somewhere.

Blandmum Mon 02-Jul-07 08:18:48

The book I mentioned , filly, was very interesting re motivation. The author felt (and witnessed) the fact that many of those advocating violent Jihad were not very passionate about their religion. In fact he mentions that many of them had little or no understanding or experience of the Koran. But they were passionate about politics.

and until we take that on board, progress will be limited.

fillyjonk Mon 02-Jul-07 08:30:21

will look out book mb

fillyjonk Mon 02-Jul-07 08:30:21

will look out book mb

Blandmum Mon 02-Jul-07 08:33:10

It is a very thoughtful and thought provoking book.

glitterfairy Mon 02-Jul-07 08:38:27

I am not at all sure why this matters. Why is it that people assume that terrorists are either stupid or simply not part of society.

Doctors are just like everyone else and come in every variety. IN fact now I come to think of it they are often people with deep beliefs about what is right adn good for others and some of them would probably fight for a cause as a matter of principle.

Sometimes it is a belief that what is good for the majority or for a section of society is more important than the individual.

FioFio Mon 02-Jul-07 08:38:30

Message withdrawn

Judy1234 Mon 02-Jul-07 08:54:15

What worries me is that these Mr Bean type incidents seem to suggest they didn't even have GCSE science so I was assuming they were educated at Bradford's finest sink comprehensives or their equivalent not doctors from abroad.

nailpolish Mon 02-Jul-07 08:55:34

im not sure why people are so shocked - doctors are just the same as everyone else...

<confused>

suedonim Mon 02-Jul-07 09:00:17

I think it's because of the dichotomy of someone who desires on the one hand to help people and on the other, wishes to harm them. Also, that someone as well educated as a doctor thinks violence solves anything, however awful that problem is.

nailpolish Mon 02-Jul-07 09:01:36

unfortunately not all doctors are doctors because they want to "help people". not all doctors are 'nice'

nailpolish Mon 02-Jul-07 09:02:53

also, IMO, you could argue that its difficult to understand why someone "as educated" as a doctor would believe in religion and take it word for word, iyswim

mumblechum Mon 02-Jul-07 09:07:57

As far as I know, the only doctor ALLEGEDLY involved is theguy who was forced off the M6 yesterday who has NOT been charged. I was very surprised that he has been named when no charges have yet been made.

expatinscotland Mon 02-Jul-07 09:16:00

Let's not forget that more Muslims have been killed by fanatics like this than Westerners.

To paraphrase a good friend of mine, a moderate Muslim academic from Pakistan, put it this way: They feel anyone who does not agree with their violent and archaic beliefs is a legitimate target.

That includes other Muslims, FWIW.

As an educated Pakistani woman, she found herself just as much in their line of fire as any Westerner.

tissy Mon 02-Jul-07 09:19:45

"Foreign" doctors don't have to be "security cleared" AFAIK, but employers do have to check idf they have a criminal record, and if working with children, not on sex offenders register. But this would apply to all doctors, UK or overseas trained, and not just to foreigners.

Do we know that this chap is a foreigner and not UK born? Alex Salmond, I think in an attempt to calm down anti Muslim feelings, said that the perpetrators, "weren't Scottish", but they still could have been from the rest of the UK.

Hippocratic oath doesn't exist in the UK any more. Not sure about other countries.

Don't actually think it matters that one may have been a doctor, he clearly believed, or was brainwashed into believing that what he was doing was the right thing. Being a doctor doesn't make you immune to suggestion (which is why the drug companies freebies have had to be stamped on!).

lemonaid Mon 02-Jul-07 09:22:06

Ed Hussain was on BBC World Service this morning and very interesting, I thought.

ruty Mon 02-Jul-07 09:38:41

good post filyjonk

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