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Horrifying so-called 'honour' killing

(92 Posts)
edam Tue 12-Jun-07 10:00:01

The father and uncle of Banaz Mahmod have been sentenced for killing her and chopping up her body. Monstrous. And terrible that apparently the police let her down, failing to take threats against her life seriously.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6743357.stm]

edam Tue 12-Jun-07 10:00:49

Oops, trying again. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6743357.stm

edam Tue 12-Jun-07 10:08:34

Bump because someone out there must be shocked by this.

haarpsichordcarrier Tue 12-Jun-07 10:12:04

I really wish the police and media would not use the term "honour" killing.
it is so fucking innappropriate.
how about cowardly, vile, primitive behaviour.
I can't bear the term "ethnic cleansing" either.

Jazzicatz Tue 12-Jun-07 10:14:59

I think the media and the population at large use sanitised phrases for many crimes which I believe are inappropriate - for example, child abuse, it is rape!!!

KerryMum Tue 12-Jun-07 10:15:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SueBaroo Tue 12-Jun-07 10:15:21

yep, shocked, didn't see it. Well, when I say shocked, I mean horrified. I'm reading about incidents like this with increasing frequency, and it's becoming less surprising everytime. I just can't quite get my head around the fact that it's family members that do this.

Peachy Tue 12-Jun-07 10:15:27

I do wish they wouldnt call them Honour killings- it makes it sound as if its done with some degree of acceptability

HORROR killing would be far more appropriate

I agree its awful Edam about time a unit was set up itf it is as common as they are stating. At least some trianed officers (female presumably) from the same communities should be available.

Peachy Tue 12-Jun-07 10:15:54

X posts harpsis

edam Tue 12-Jun-07 10:16:38

Agree Harpsi.

fryalot Tue 12-Jun-07 10:16:53

Peachy - a unit was set up, about 5 years ago. They still didn't protect this poor woman.

Peachy Tue 12-Jun-07 10:24:11

Oh right- I read there isn't one- excellent news! I guess though that there's still something wrong somewhere if the police didnt take her seriously.

I really hate the way anything like this si reported as an ethnic thing- for some reason it seems to make people too wary to intervene. Inter-family murders occur in all communities for all sorts of motives- the excuse of some murders being 'cultaurally motivated' is a red herring, violence and murder is violence and murder.

I was reading a primary ed mag about femlae genital mutilation the other day saying the same thing- people are reluctant to get involved because its an 'ethnic thing'. bollocks. Its awful, illegal and should be stamped on hard.

madmarchhare Tue 12-Jun-07 10:27:10

Agree with Sue in that in doesnt 'shock' any more.

Can anyone explain where their validation comes from?

SueBaroo Tue 12-Jun-07 10:31:16

I saw a beeb documentary a while back about Christian Missionaries and their attempts to stop FGM. Now, I don't agree with a lot of the imperialist nature of the 19th century missionaries, but the documentary basically said that it was very wrong to interfere with the indigenous practice of FGM because it was a cultural thing, you see.

bollocks to that.

edam Tue 12-Jun-07 10:31:37

The police officer in charge of the investigation said many people in the Kurdish community were falling over themselves to help the killers, rather than the police. Somehow we need to reach out into those communities to protect girls and women who are under such serious threats.

dinosaur Tue 12-Jun-07 10:34:57

Well, that's all very well, blaming people in the community for being on the killers' side, but how did he explain the fact that this wooman asked the police for help four times and they still failed to protect her?

Peachy Tue 12-Jun-07 10:35:16

'the documentary basically said that it was very wrong to interfere with the indigenous practice of FGM because it was a cultural thing, you see. '

A cultural thing that can lead to urinary retnetion, infection and even death. And is done mainly without anaesthetic apparently.

Sickeniing!

edam Tue 12-Jun-07 10:36:51

The officer who made those comments is a woman, actually. And I don't see why the fact the police fucked up so very badly excuses the behaviour of people aiding and abetting evil murdering bastards.

SueBaroo Tue 12-Jun-07 10:40:34

It wasn't right for the police to be so lackadaisical about it, but, even if you had a squad that responded to every report, the problem would still exist because it is part of the community, therefore the community do bear the bulk of the responsibility imo.

dinosaur Tue 12-Jun-07 10:41:07

No, it doesn't excuse it at all, I agree, but I was still very shocked that the police so dismally failed to protect her.

Peachy Tue 12-Jun-07 10:43:19

interesting link

history of honour killings


Its sad how many of these practices there are around the world really, when you look at things like Sati where the women even wanted to carry on the tradition- ! Makes you relaise how powerful culture is, and why the various statse have to be able to intervene effectively

wannaBe Tue 12-Jun-07 10:44:25

it's horrific. and it's far too common.

And I don't give a shit whether it's part of someone's culture, if someone's culture says that it's acceptable to murder family members for betraying the family then that culture is wrong imo and should be stamped on hard.

SueBaroo Tue 12-Jun-07 10:46:44

yep. I think it's issues like this where we have to say that actually, in this respect, our culture trumps yours, and that actually, we're quite proud of the fact that women are not routinely mutilated and murdered for stepping out of line. There's not a fat lot I'm proud of in Western culture right now, but that certainly is one thing.

dinosaur Tue 12-Jun-07 10:48:34

It's a delicate balance isn't it - how to empower women so that they can take responsibility for their own lives, whilst being sensitive to the fact that for all its faults, family life is so important - pre-eminent really - in a lot of cultures.

Peachy Tue 12-Jun-07 11:01:13

The saddest thing perhaps, is that in its origination Islam was extremely forwards looking for womens rights- the right to inherit for example was present at the time of Muhammad, incredibly forwards thinking! And domestic Islamic culture is in iotself s trengthening of the bonds of family- those who take it further are not Muslim, they're killers. No different to the Old Ireland thing- those who killed others in paramilitray actions weren't Christians by any syandards of measurement: they were murderers.

'"....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people." (5:32)' (Qur'anic decalogue)


Thou shalt not kill (Christian Decalogue)

Thou Shalt Not Murder (Jewish Decalogue)

I find no excuses there then.....

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