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Grenfell Tower The Aftermath Thread SIX.

(617 Posts)
HelenaDove Wed 05-Jul-17 19:46:27

I thought i would take the oppurtunity to start thread six as thread five is now coming to an end. thanks thanks to all those lost in the fire their survivors families friends and volunteers.
Link to thread five which also includes links to previous threads.

Lucysky2017 Wed 05-Jul-17 20:00:20

The little girl on that BBC twitter link on the last thread was so upset,poor little thing. I wish the BBC would tell us more about what this accommodation is like that people are rejecting - can we not see inside and see what the GT flats look like so we can compare and be able to form valid judgments on who is being unreasonable and who is not. If they are being offered much smaller awful places infested with bugs out where I live in zone 5 that that is totally unreasonable even with a rent holiday for 1 year as after the year the rent could be much higher than now.

If a lot of them are in full time work anyway they might be better off just saying b ugger ths council. I am going to get out there and just rent somewhere decent as relying on the council seems like such a risky nasty thing only to be done if you really could not afford market rents. 2 bed flat is about £1k a month where I live (outer London) so most people on two full time minimum wage jobs can usually afford it.

HelenaDove Wed 05-Jul-17 20:02:40

Shes only ten as well Lucy. Showing such bravery .

Saucery Wed 05-Jul-17 20:03:59

14 out of 139 is really low. I can't see it as all those people being extremely choosy or entitled, as some as claiming. There must be reasons why the housing is inadequate, maybe different reasons for different individuals.

HelenaDove Wed 05-Jul-17 20:05:04

Lucy what was unreasonable was the tenants concerns about fire safety being ignored and them being threatened if they didnt shut up.

HelenaDove Wed 05-Jul-17 20:16:06

residents have been told they have an eight day deadline starting from today for written submissions to the enquiry. hmm

Lucysky2017 Wed 05-Jul-17 20:32:13

I know, dreadful on all kinds of levels. It makes me realise though that most of us should try very hard never to rely on state provision as it is utterly useless. The people managing things are uselses, the system is useless, the properties they lte out are sub standard, the council and housing people are full of jobsworths just ticking boxes and everyone avoids taking responsibility for anything.

May the law centre acting free for a lot of the tenants could help them in the next 8 days get their submissions together, properly written and submitted. A lot of lawyers have volunteered their services free too.

WellThisIsShit Wed 05-Jul-17 21:14:49

"The people managing things are uselses, the system is useless, the properties they lte out are sub standard, the council and housing people are full of jobsworths just ticking boxes and everyone avoids taking responsibility for anything."

Yup. And yet people's lives depend on it. But hey, they're disposable people right so it doesn't matter (waves fist at sky. Ffs).

Im terrified that soon ill be one of those rubbish people soon (disabled) that so many people are happy to treat like shit.

I'm having to screen the news and mumsnet because it's so utterly terrifying.

guinea36 Wed 05-Jul-17 22:18:13

It struck me after reading the AIBU thread that the response to this whole tragedy has highlighted so many deep seated injustices not only in the despicable way the GT residents were treated but in our wider society.
Inadequate housing, sky high rents and precarious tenancies have become the status quo for so many people. We seem to have accepted that finding somewhere decent to live is now often almost a case of survival of the fittest. Ie, who can put together the biggest deposit, luck out with a landlord, make the best offer for rented or bought properties or the most compelling case for social housing.
With such desperate competition for something so essential a constant undercurrent of life in this country, its not surprising housing can bring our most selfish instincts boiling to the surface.
I will be honest and admit that I shocked myself on this front in the aftermath of the tragedy.
Scores of people had died the most horrific death. But for a brief moment I found myself wondering (shamefully) how so many residents, who appeared to have relatively recently arrived in the country had managed to be housed in central London. Of course the vast majority of people working in the area would have to commute long distances in and wouldn't have a hope of living there.
The comments on many newspaper websites seem to reflect that others had thought this too, as does the current debate about the victims being ungrateful/undeserving.
I feel it is such a sad indictment on our society that so many of us are so conditioned to accept our country's desperate housing situation that there is even some jealousy towards the GT residents and victims of this tragedy for managing to have a stable home in a desirable area. One of the legacies of GT should be a genuine effort by the Government to tackle the fundamental problems with housing in this country that mean so many apparently being resentful of the residents of a tinderbox unfit for human habitation.

AngelaKardashian Wed 05-Jul-17 22:36:09

Just posting so I can follow along as I have been in the last thread.

I'm sorry I don't have anything worthwhile to add, but would like to thank you all for keeping it going so it won't be brushed under the carpet so easily, as well as informing us of all the similar situations that seem to be popping up around the country.

HandbagKrabby Wed 05-Jul-17 22:38:28

I'm glad the thread was deleted, it was completely unnecessary.

The council and gov should be bending over backwards to rehome the tenants. That 300 mil in the bank would pay for a lot of nice places I would have thought. Plus the millions in donations that seems to have disappeared. You'd think in the circumstances the arbitrary rules of the day regarding social housing could be waived.

There's some really nice social housing near me, I wish everyone had access to it.

HelenaDove Wed 05-Jul-17 23:52:39

Now people seem to be back to victim blaming the guy with the fridge How many of these idiots sit over their fridge freezer watching it 24/7.
They wouldnt even sit over their washing machine for the length of a cycle.
A few years ago someone posted on the Relationships board about her controlling husband. One of the things he would make her do was sit and watch over the washing machine for the whole of its cycle because the thing was dodgy. Despite having a new one sitting in the garage which he refused to arrange to be plumbed in and he wouldnt let her arrange it either. So he would make her stand and watch the machine for the whole of the cycle. Posters were unanimous in their agreement. That this on its own was abusive (as well as other stuff he was doing) So surely expecting the guy who owned the fridge to sit and watch it 24/7 is being abusive. Online abuse on a mass scale to him and to other tenants. And it seems to be getting worse.

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 00:05:42

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 00:09:55

Another link as the ib times one has ad blocker.

YourWinter Thu 06-Jul-17 00:14:01

I am bookmarking and will catch up at the weekend but I'd just like to thank everyone taking the trouble to post links and keep the thread up to date with what's going on in the media.

BertieBotts Thu 06-Jul-17 06:24:16

The deleted thread yesterday was awful. Thank you for the supportive one, Helena.

mrsglowglow Thu 06-Jul-17 09:37:53

A resident speaks. There is so much yet to come out regarding the regeneration of this area.

Rbck are in the spotlight because of the fire but there are these crimes going on all over.

West Hendon estate is very close to me and what has gone there over the last 5 years is social cleansing. There was a TV series last year i think that followed a handful of residents.

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings Thu 06-Jul-17 10:54:18

I must say, how shocked I was when I saw the author of the aibu thread. What a weird agenda for someone to keep pushing and pushing. No doubt she'll be back here soon...

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 13:35:05

Beyond...........she has form. She was spouting her poison on the earlier Grenfell threads and on thread number five.

this was after starting a thread before the election saying that left wingers are NASTY. Im putting nasty in capitals because she did.

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings Thu 06-Jul-17 14:04:22

Did my sarcasm not come across well, Helena? grin

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 14:10:52

Oh sorry Beyond. grin MN really need to provide an eye roll smiley.

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 14:18:10

mrs glow like the woman in your link says.........its all about the money. Unfortunately nothing she said surprises me sad

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 14:49:56

HelenaDove Thu 06-Jul-17 14:51:55

Housing associations are not subject to the FOI Act and can refuse to answer requests about fire risks, safety problems, eviction policies, waiting lists and other matters.

Examples of requests for information which housing authorities have refused include:

the cause of a fire in a housing association flat, requested by a neighbouring tenant [1]
whether potentially toxic lead pipes were used for the water supply to a property [2]
the amount of flytipped waste and litter collected from a housing association’s estates [3]
the number of repossession orders served since the ‘bedroom tax’ came into force, and the number of those tenants who had no arrears before that date [4]
the policy which permitted an association to pack up an evicted tenant’s possessions and confidential documents instead of allowing him to collect them [5]
the number of properties adapted for disabled persons (the requester said she wanted: ‘just the number, nothing else’) [6]
the number of asylum seekers housed [7]
the number of properties empty for more than 6 weeks [8]
the electricity bill which led a tenant to be charged £1,200 to cover the costs of 6 communal light bulbs [9]
the make and model of street lighting on an estate which the requester found ‘overpowering’ at night. He wanted to use the information to contact the manufacturer to see if they could suggest a remedy [10]
details of a contract for emptying septic tanks shared by a housing association and privately owned properties. The requester, a private owner, wanted to know the basis on which he was being charged [11]
the numbers of complaints about repairs [12]
the circumstances in which tenants have been given permission to sublet and action taken against those subletting without permission [13]
the policy on dealing with requests for an individual’s own personal information under the Data Protection Act and the relevant application form [14]
the job description of the housing association’s Head of Governance [15]

Such information is routinely disclosed by local authorities in response to FOI requests. Most of the above requests were made through the website and referred to the FOI Act. This prompted many housing associations to point out that the Act did not apply to them. This would not have prevented them releasing information voluntarily and the fact that they didn’t do so is revealing. Typical comments included: “We do not wish to reply to your enquiry as we are not subject to the FOIA legislation” (Midland Heart); “As Wirral Partnership Homes LTD does not fall under the Freedom of Information Act we are not obligated to respond to your enquiry”; “Great Places Housing Group is not a public body under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act and is not under any obligation to respond to requests made under this legislation”; “Our client is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act and is therefore not obliged to answer a request made under that Act” (solicitor for Genesis Housing Group to a person who had been evicted)

mrsglowglow Thu 06-Jul-17 15:35:41

It's actually really disturbing that HAs and public service contractors are currently exempt from FOI Act. Here they are being handed with the responsibilities that would previously have been carried out by the local authorities. It's very worrying seeing as so many public services are now farmed out to private companies. It feels as though ordinary people have less and less protection. Is this the same with social care that is tendered by the LAs to private companies etc? So much for transparency!

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