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Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

(1000 Posts)
RhythmAndStealth Wed 14-Jun-17 23:17:24

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

flowers to all those affected and everyone helping.

GlitteryFluff Wed 14-Jun-17 23:19:45

It's all just so heart breaking.

HelenaDove Wed 14-Jun-17 23:21:38

To prevent something like this happening again there has to be proper regulation of social housing.

And there needs to be a BIG shift in thinking over the way tenants are viewed

RhythmAndStealth Wed 14-Jun-17 23:23:48

I agree Glitter. The facial expressions and demeanour of survivors, witnesses, relatives and emergency personnel, anyone on the scene in fact, tell a horrific story beyond words.

Link to previous thread

Want2bSupermum Wed 14-Jun-17 23:28:15

helena Totally agree. I'm a LL and I'm just floored at what goes on. I keep my places safe.

Reading this I'm just horrified that there was no sprinkler system. I have a tenant who has a disabled child. I installed a sprinkler system because if there was a fire there is a chance they couldn't get themselves and their child out. It was £7k to install and it costs £200 a year to maintain.

I just do not understand how on earth anyone was allowed to live in that building with no sprinkler system and only one way out. How can that be code?

CondensedMilkSarnies Wed 14-Jun-17 23:28:17

I don't think I've seen news reporters so obviously distressed as some have been today.

Where do these poor victims even begin to sort their lives out ?

Charmageddon Wed 14-Jun-17 23:30:58

Thanks for the new thread.

I've posted this on the last one, am reposting here as it's made me so angry:

Can we talk about the elephant in the room? The fact that these people died because they were poor/living in council housing? And, no, I don't mean to be disrespectful. I don't mean to politicise the issue - this already IS a political issue!

It really is.

Have posted on another thread - 11 years the cross party fire prevention group have been demanding that building regs are reviewed.

In the early 1990s there was a "damning review presented to the home office" about fire risks in high rises.

This is a failing across decades & across Tories, Labour & Lib Dem govts.

Shame on them all.

sleepingdragons Wed 14-Jun-17 23:31:10

From the previous thread:

This is Tory policy realised in blood. Over 70 Tory MPs voted against obliging landlords to make their properties for for human habitation. It's done more obviously than their slow persecution of the disabled but it's all cut from the same cloth. And to accuse Labour of politicising it?! Fuck me. The Tories would rather poor children burned to death than their cronies spent money. If you don't politicise that, or can only be because you agree with the policy.

I couldn't agree more - only your figues are out.

It was not 70, but the entire Tory party - 312 MPs, that day - who voted against Labour's ammendment on making properties fit for human habitation.

72 of them happened to be landlords.

Slimthistime Wed 14-Jun-17 23:31:27

Re advice to stay in flats
There was a fire in my block. - not social housing so not a factor - and I left the flat as I didn't fancy jumping over the balcony a few floors down! The smoke was quite thick outside my door, a bit like that clip on Sky News or Facebook.

and I was sure I had done the right thing but when the management company investigated, they asked me why I'd left the flat. Crazy. Also if I'd waited longer I'd have had trouble seeing my way down the stairs? But they kept telling me my door is fireproof. There's a gap though and I have asthma so the smoke would have come through?

I think a lot of this advice needs to be rethought. Also seeing reports that residents complained of electrical faults that were never dealt with.

CondensedMilkSarnies Wed 14-Jun-17 23:31:32

I used to be a LL and as I said before I faced fines of £20,000 if I didn't keep my property up to standard . It seems the powers that be are happy to chase individuals but not the big boys.

HelenaDove Wed 14-Jun-17 23:32:19

And some of the media now reporting on the tragedy are partly responsible for the way social housing tenants are viewed.

BeyondStrongAndStable Wed 14-Jun-17 23:35:41

Just copying my post over from the bottom of the other thread as there is a new one now...

I just read elsewhere so thought I'd copy it over to here. The regs for insulation cladding only refer to the flammability of the surfaces not the internal material.

So it's very possible that everything did meet existing regs, they just weren't good enough sad

HelenaDove Wed 14-Jun-17 23:36:39

I posted this on the previous thread but i will put it here too. When i phoned Gas Safety to voice concerns about a company they told me nothing could be done until something actually happened.

DogStrummer Wed 14-Jun-17 23:40:23

*I just read elsewhere so thought I'd copy it over to here. The regs for insulation cladding only refer to the flammability of the surfaces not the internal material.

So it's very possible that everything did meet existing regs, they just weren't good enough *

I read on another forum, that there are two types of filling that can be used, expanded Polystyrene (flammable), and rock wool. Rock wool does not burn, but is more expensive, so doesn't tend to be used. angry

The specs for the Grenfel building say it used the cheaper filling. However, they mandated that 150mm Cortex board was fitted behind the cladding. Plenty for the fire investigation bods to be looking at.

I don't think it would be a kneejerk reaction to ban the flammable filling going forward under all circumstances. Cortex boards or no, we've just seen a 24 story building go up in less than an hour.

Some decent journalism is needed to get the facts together about regs, etc. I'm just picking stuff up from forums, so the above isn't gospel.

Want2bSupermum Wed 14-Jun-17 23:41:00

HA housing has so many issues it's unreal. My family run a HA as a non-profit. That means we don't take a salary, only expenses are covered. Every other HA has management who pay themselves huge huge salaries, bonuses and dividends.

For every single time I hear about greedy bankers I want to scream. HA management are far more greedy. Their inflated salaries come from HBs and the salaries of the poor. At least in banking you are actually working for your money.

SerfTerf Wed 14-Jun-17 23:41:17

At least they'll have to rebuild proper social housing on the site. To excellent standards this time.

As a result, it's possibly now the only council estate in London that's truly safe from being sold off in a dodgy private housing development "land grab" deal.

Dark, but true I think.

MumIsRunningAMarathon Wed 14-Jun-17 23:42:13

It wasn't all social housing though was it? Some was private lets

HelenaDove Wed 14-Jun-17 23:42:17

Sorry to those of you who have already seen this thread.

HelenaDove Wed 14-Jun-17 23:44:42

MumIs yes it was but the way that tenants are viewed is a problem. One of the people being interviewed on Channel 4 news said the same.

Shadow666 Wed 14-Jun-17 23:44:57

Survivors are still being helped out. It seems one side of the flats was less badly burnt.

SerfTerf Wed 14-Jun-17 23:45:27

It's a council building on a council estate with a majority of units still council tenancies.

I would think owners of individual flats will be offered a settlement.

lobsterface Wed 14-Jun-17 23:46:02

I can't believe there are survivors at this point, that is an absolute miracle.

Shadow666 Wed 14-Jun-17 23:47:21

At least they'll have to rebuild proper social housing on the site. To excellent standards this time.

With what money though? It might be sold off to a private developer.

GreenTulips Wed 14-Jun-17 23:47:38

The shear intensity of the fire was shocking - those poor families. it went up far too quick and no sprinklers or loud enough fire alarms - were there any fire extinguishers?

It doesn't bare thinking about

MumIsRunningAMarathon Wed 14-Jun-17 23:47:45

What do you mean? How they are viewed??

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