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Too clever for jail?!

(24 Posts)
nursy1 Wed 17-May-17 17:07:24

So this Oxford Student/ drug addict who stabbed her boyfriend doesn't deserve to go to jail because she is clever and wouldn't be able to become a Doctor if she got the punishment that fit the crime.
Might be a different story if she came from the local council estate.
What do you think?

Secretbiscuits Wed 17-May-17 17:12:20

I think it's bizarre, is she really fit to be a doctor?! I think the fact she is young, attractive, white and goes to Oxford has helped her massively.

Lockheart Wed 17-May-17 19:02:26

I think it's utterly ridiculous. It's no better than those rich privileged sporty types in the US who get a slap on the wrist (if that) for rape "because it would damage their careers".

I certainly don't want to see a doctor who's stabbed someone!

nursy1 Wed 17-May-17 21:00:25

I think if you are young then you should get a second chance, maybe even a third chance. The problem I have is that its not evenly applied. Some one with a different background would get a different outcome.

Also unsure about what it says to the victim - well, you were stabbed by a potential Dr so it's not so bad.

Toddlerteaplease Wed 17-May-17 21:38:27

Ridiculous, I totally agree. She won't ever become a doctor with that on her record.

PenguinOfDoom Wed 17-May-17 21:47:26

I think there's a bit more to the story than is actually being reported. There was a thread on here discussing it which was deleted.

HeyCat Wed 17-May-17 21:56:54

She was on drugs during the attack.

Judge has said he will wait and pass the sentence in several months: anybody who's worked in the criminal justice system can tell you that this means they are waiting for reports from psychiatrists or a rehab programme.

The judge is NOT saying she's too clever or too promising to go to jail. He is giving her defence team a chance to gather evidence about her mental state and her chances of getting off drugs and leading a normal productive life. This is completely normal in this type of case.

DangerMouse17 Wed 17-May-17 22:01:28

So what if she was on drugs during the attack? Does that mean she wasn't responsible? Clearly not THAT clever then was she hmm

This sends a very dangerous message to other young people tbh.

missyB1 Wed 17-May-17 22:03:23

The medical profession really don't need her!!

HeyCat Wed 17-May-17 22:43:52

No it doesn't mean she's not responsible. Obviously people are held accountable for actions while on drugs.

The question is what the most appropriate sentence would be. The judge is saying that ordinarily this kind of crime would lead to a prison sentence, but he's willing to hear evidence about whether a different approach will work better in terms of both punishment and long term rehabilitation.

HeyCat Wed 17-May-17 22:44:37

Maybe the medical profession would benefit from a few people who've had experience with addiction.

nursy1 Wed 17-May-17 23:38:06

Heycat. I get all of this. You maybe have some experience of the criminal justice system. What I wonder is, is it evenly applied.
If you are a black kid doing a plumbing course at the local college is your treatment the same?

GardenGeek Wed 17-May-17 23:43:39

I have just taken a breather from the Three Girls thread as my blood is running cold and I have tears in my eyes, and simultaneously anger raging through gritted teeth.

We may as well just get rid of the justice system all together. Its a fucking free for all.

Cuts? Theres nothing left to fucking cut. They are useless.

myheadsamess Wed 17-May-17 23:55:19

The GMC will refuse her registration if she has conviction anyway, but I think she sounds ill 😏

Want2bSupermum Thu 18-May-17 00:03:11

She sounds very sick in terms of her Mh. I would hope that there is an extremely limited chance of her becoming a doctor and the college can move her to an allied course like biochemistry where she can be a scientist in medical science.

A girl I went to school with had pretty major Mh problems during 6th form and is a doctor today. She is absolutely not the sort of person I would want as my doctor and to this day I have no idea why she was picked when so many better candidates were turned away. I have the same thoughts about this girl.... at what point was the university going to recognize she has a drug problem?

JamieXeed74 Thu 18-May-17 14:35:58

What I wonder is, is it evenly applied. If you are a black kid doing a plumbing course at the local college is your treatment the same?

If you are doing a plumbing course at local college, you can go back to that after a short prison sentence. If you training to be a doctor, a short prison sentence will end your career.

So it seems fair and even to consider rehabilitation before ending her career.

SomeOtherFuckers Thu 18-May-17 15:05:11

What happens if you're an annoying patient and she fucking stabs you with the scalpel???

aginghippy Thu 18-May-17 15:51:23

Interesting blog post about this case thesecretbarrister.com/2017/05/16/an-oxford-medical-student-stabbed-her-boyfriend-with-a-bread-knife-so-why-is-she-not-going-to-prison

Regarding the black kid doing a plumbing course, she says The reason you don’t hear about the suspended sentences handed down for less photogenic defendants – for the 19 year-old lad starting his apprenticeship, or the 48 year-old mobile hairdresser – is mainly because the media tends not to report on them.

talkingtofrank Thu 18-May-17 23:08:47

I think it is utterly unbelievable and it just proves that money talks, I certainly wouldn't want her anywhere near me if I were in hospital! How can you let someone with a drug problem and obvious mental health issues loose in a hospital full of drugs? It makes a mockery of our criminal justice system, she shouldn't be treated any differently to anyone else who had committed the same crime as it sends out a very poor message. One of the newspapers reported that she was on holiday in Barbados, because jetting off to the Caribbean fixes everything doesn't it! If it were an average person they probably wouldn't even be allowed to leave the country under bail restrictions.

BarbarianMum Fri 19-May-17 11:06:22

<<if you are training to be a doctor then a short spell in prison will end your career>>

She doesn't have a career, she has an aspiration. One would hope stabbing someone whilst high on drugs would end anyone's career as a doctor. She's bright, she can do something else.

aginghippy Fri 19-May-17 11:59:54

I would assume that pleading guilty to a violent crime would disqualify someone from registering as a doctor. That would be a matter for the GMC, though, not the court.

Anyway, she may go to prison. Nobody knows, not even the judge in the case, because she has not been sentenced yet.

prh47bridge Fri 19-May-17 15:44:30

At the moment all that has happened is that the judge has deferred sentence for 4 months.

Deferring sentence means that she is being given a chance to reform. If she has met the court's expectations that will be taken into account in sentencing.

The offence she has admitted is unlawful wounding. The sentencing guidelines give three categories for this offence. There isn't enough information about this case to determine whether it is Category 1, 2 or 3 although it seems unlikely to be Category 1. Even if it is Category 1, given that she pleaded guilty that would almost certainly lead to a sentence that could be suspended. If, as I suspect, it is Category 2 or 3 the sentence would definitely one that could be suspended.

The fact that a sentence can be suspended does not mean the judge should suspend it. One of the factors indicating a sentence should be suspended is a realistic prospect of rehabilitation. That, presumably, is why the judge has deferred sentencing. The courts tend to lean towards suspending the sentence where possible for a first offence as the offender is more likely to become a serial criminal if they are imprisoned.

Her career prospects may form part of the equation in determining whether or not the sentence should be suspended. But this doesn't just apply to those with potential glittering careers ahead of them. There are cases where defendants on low incomes have avoided jail simply because they had a job.

We don't know how serious the injury was but the fact she was prosecuted for unlawful wounding rather than GBH suggests it wasn't particularly bad. The judge may well consider that more can be achieved through a sentence focussed on rehabilitation rather than destroying her future life prospects.

Someone from the council estate would also probably escape jail in similar circumstances. Even without the alleged promising career as a doctor a first offence of unlawful wounding is more likely than not to produce a suspended sentence.

I note, in passing, the parallels with the Mustafa Bashir case.

peteneras Mon 22-May-17 19:05:07

Now Oxford says, quite rightly, I might add, there's no guarantee she'd be allowed back to continue with her studies no matter what the judge might have said. Personally, I'm in two minds about this:

1) Surely, everyone is allowed a mistake and be given a second chance;
2) What she did was indeed a very serious offence and the GMC would be agonising as to whether to accept her registration.

I speak as a parent of a medical student of the same age as this young lady and about to qualify as a doctor. I trust both Oxford and the GMC in their wisdoms would come to a right decision.

Want2bSupermum Mon 22-May-17 21:55:29

pet I'm all for second chances but is a medical career really the best choice of career for someone with an addiction problem?

I would think a more suitable path would be medical research. She is clearly bright but I don't believe that is enough to be a good doctor. You must be able to deal with stress. She has demonstrated she can't deal with stress.

As someone who is back at a financial institution, you just do not keep your job after you have tested positive for any drugs. It's an automatic dismissal. You can be rehired after you have completed your rehabilitation program and shown you can stay sober for 2 years (which I think is fair).

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