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The murder of Maria Ladenburger in Germany

(61 Posts)
hubris Thu 15-Dec-16 13:23:16

Maria Ladenburger was the 19 year old daughter of a lawyer who works for the European Commission. She was a medical student in Freiburg. She was raped and murdered in October cycling home from a party. A 17 year old Afghan asylum seeker who arrived in Germany in November 2015 under Angela Merkel's all comers policy has admitted to her murder after he was arrested on DNA evidence.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/afghan-refugee-arrested-over-rape-murder-german-medical-student-maria-ladenburger-1594764
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/04/afghan-asylum-seeker-confesses-murdering-german-medical-student/

He is also under investigation for the rape and murder of a 27 year old woman three weeks later in the same area.

It turns out he may also be responsible for pushing another woman off a cliff in Corfu in 2013.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38314498

I cannot find anything about this story in the Guardian.

DameDeDoubtance Thu 15-Dec-16 16:06:56

The Guardian aren't too fussed about women, they are quite low down on their list.

Amandahugandkisses Thu 15-Dec-16 16:09:34

The poor girl and family

loinnir Thu 15-Dec-16 17:32:51

Awful - serious questions to be answered about why he was released after less than a year in custody in Greece for attempted murder (pushing woman off the cliff). He gave his age as 17 in Greece when caught (2013) and he was still "17 " when detained in Germany.

53rdAndBird Thu 15-Dec-16 17:38:30

I cannot find anything about this story in the Guardian.

There are 700+ murders per year in Germany - I don't think the Guardian covers many of them. Perhaps a German paper would be better for you to look for more info? Der Spiegel has a lot of English-language content, I think?

BillSykesDog Fri 16-Dec-16 07:53:56

I think this is interesting. The no borders crowd have tended to be wealthy people who are insulated from the effects of migration without checks on criminal background because they live in wealthy areas and move in wealthy circles where they're a lot less likely to come into contact with the sort of migrants who are hiding histories of violence. There's a security for them that if these acts of violence happen it will happen to someone else, normally other migrants and if not just some random worthless poor person. I believe that, for example, the 'sexual emergency' rape victim in Austria was a Serbian boy.

This seems to be starting to change and their bubble of safety is being burst. I wonder if this will begin to change their attitude that entry without checks is harmless or at least the harm is not worth worrying about.

There was a case near London of a girl from a violently pro unfettered migration family who was murdered by a Slovakian man who had already served a sentence for murdering his wife and had a history of sexual violence. Shortly before her murder she had written an essay insisting that the possibility of redemption for criminal migrants was more important than any victims created by ignoring their past. It's very easy to say that when you assume that those victims will always be someone else and someone else will make the sacrifice for your principles. It will be someone else's son or daughter. I wonder perhaps if their bubble of safety bursting might convince some people like this that perhaps having an idea of who is coming in, what their history is and where they go after conviction in Europe has it's advantages.

Poor girls in both these cases. They seem to have genuinely cared about other people but have had it repaid like this. It's generally a good idea to work out how you can help other people without endangering yourself or others in the process.

zippey Fri 16-Dec-16 08:14:01

There will always be bad apples in the barrel. Doesn't mean you still try and help people who need it.

BillSykesDog Fri 16-Dec-16 08:30:06

There will always be bad apples in the barrel. Doesn't mean you still try and help people who need it.

It isn't a binary choice between helping people who need it and not ensuring that you don't put other people in danger. For example letting this girls killer into Europe gave him safety. Allowing him to move across Europe without detection or monitoring despite already having committed a serious and violent crime did not help him or anyone else.

Namechangeemergency Fri 16-Dec-16 08:35:39

Did he do it because he is an immigrant?
Or did it he do it because he is a violent man?

Please don't speak for me. I am a woman. I am not sheltered from immigration. I am working class and on a low income living in an area of high deprivation.

There is a discussion to be had about how we protect women from ALL violent men, particularly if they have offended before (because of course it is then predicable they will do it again).

I suspect this has all been said before and I will be dismissed.

LotsoNumbers Fri 16-Dec-16 08:42:06

Or did he do it because he's from a culture where violence against women is more widely accepted?

Namechangeemergency Fri 16-Dec-16 09:18:49

Because violence against women is something we have got totally sorted in our culture isn't it?

Urgh. Racism dressed up as concern for women. EDL and BNP have been doing this for years.

CakeyMcCakey Fri 16-Dec-16 09:22:46

He did it because he's a rapist and a murderer.

Maybe he was raised in a culture that has less respect for women. But millions of other people are raised in that culture and don't rape and murder. And millions of other humans are raised within cultures that strive to give equal rights and they still rape and murder.

The question really needs to be centred around how and why he got the chance to do it in the first place.

BillSykesDog Fri 16-Dec-16 09:42:22

Nobody is saying that he committed the crime because he was an immigrant namechange so you're making pointless statements arguing against something which nobody has said.

But does the current system of dealing with migrants (and particularly asylum seekers) in mainland Europe facilitate this sort of thing? You bet it does.

This man will have been able to move from Greece and Germany with no questions asked. When he arrived in Germany he would have been able to give a new name and new date of birth unconnected to his offending which would have been accepted with no questions asked because he was an asylum seeker. And that system is definitely providing opportunities for offenders to go under the radar.

We don't have violence against women sorted. But we do try. For example if men have committed serious violent offences and are released from prison there are at least attempts to supervise them and minimise the chances of them reoffending and I assume Germany do too. But that's all pissing in the wind if you've created a class of hundreds of thousands of men who can just change their name and turn up somewhere else with no papers and just pull a new identity out of the air and leave that offending behind. It was the same with the Cologne attacks where the police admitted the attackers were very unlikely to be caught because their identities were completely off the radar and could be changed so there was no hope of tracking them down. Ditto several of the offenders in the French terror attacks over recent years who investigation has shown popped up in various places all over Europe over the years with different names and different ages.

And this 'Oh well we have got violence against women' stuff is drivel. That doesn't mean we should give up trying to stop it. We have a two tier system now. Domestic attackers can't just up sticks and turn up somewhere else and get housing and financial support with a false identity. Attackers who are asylum seekers can. This is a loophole that needs closing.

Perhaps namechange, you would like to meet some of the victims of these crimes and tell them that they don't really matter because if someone gets raped by a German bloke they might as well be raped by an Afghan too?

SouthallGirl Fri 16-Dec-16 18:44:50

There was a case near London of a girl from a violently pro unfettered migration family who was murdered by a Slovakian man who had already served a sentence for murdering his wife and had a history of sexual violence. Shortly before her murder she had written an essay insisting that the possibility of redemption for criminal migrants was more important than any victims created by ignoring their past

That was Alice Gross in Hanwell, near to where Iive. She was killed by a Latvian who had served time back home for the murder of his wife. He was living with his girlfriend who must have known of his background.

I dont know about Alice's parents, but I fear that there still continues to be people whose ideology prevents them from taking precautions and thinking clearly. Not even the death of someone near to them seems to jerk them out of their soporofic and bland attitude to danger. Not everyone is like yourself, not everyone that you encounter has no 'side' to them.

And the worst are those who take at face value the story they have been given.

The murder of this beautiful Maria, and her father's statement that he is still very much pro-EU, has touched me. What does it take, mate?

SouthallGirl Fri 16-Dec-16 18:52:12

Namechange You think BNP and EDL are bad? These murdering motherfu****s who have arrived into Europe hate women, they resent their freedom, their confidence, independence and they don't want them on the streets without a male escort. Why do you think Cologne happened? The sex attacks on NY Eve happened across Europe in many cities. Finland got wind of it and managed to prevent, but many women in many cities experience groping, rape and robbery.

Taharrush was the first phase of changing women' behaviour and 'encouraging' them to stay home in the evenings. The second are all these murders we read, esp, in Germany and Sweden.

And what did the German authorities tell women in the aftermath? They told the women not to encourage the newcomers and when they next go out, to dress soberly.

Don't you think that's a fucking cheek?

Namechangeemergency Fri 16-Dec-16 18:54:44

Oh.
It's you.

birdybirdywoofwoof Fri 16-Dec-16 18:58:51

a girl from a violently pro unfettered migration family

What on earth are you talking about? "Violently pro unfettered migration family?"

And what's this? I fear that there still continues to be people whose ideology prevents them from taking precautions and thinking clearly.

What? I don't understand what you are saying about 14 year old girl's murder at all. but it certainly does look like you are blaming her 'violently pro unfettered migration family.'

SouthallGirl Fri 16-Dec-16 19:13:18

I never used the term "pro unfettered" so not sure what you are accusing me of.

Pagwatch Fri 16-Dec-16 19:19:03

SouthallGirl,

You quoted the phrase "a violently pro unfettered migration family" when you quoted BillSykesDog but I imagine, as both highlighted quotes were from BillSykes post, that birdybirdywoof was reacting to BillSykes rather than you.

So your 'I don't know what you are accusing me of' seems a little over the top.

birdybirdywoofwoof Fri 16-Dec-16 19:19:14

I fear that there still continues to be people whose ideology prevents them from taking precautions and thinking clearly.

What on earth are you trying to say here?

BreakWindandFire Fri 16-Dec-16 19:44:12

Alice Gross - the granddaughter of Jewish refugees - was killed by a Latvian criminal. Latvia has a pretty good record on female equality, so it wasn't cultural. No more than the British banker turned serial killer and torturer convicted last month in Hong Kong was representative of British manhood.

Alice was abducted and killed in broad daylight coming home from school - I'm not sure how people have got the impression her parents brought her up to be vulnerable for ideological reasons? Cos it's bollocks.

As for "a violently pro unfettered migration family" her parents simply were happy to be EU members and objected to her case being picked up by Britain First and Leave.EU who didn't give a shit about her, and just wanted to exploit her death to further their agenda. They were also clear that there ought to be internal-EU monitoring of dangerous criminals - you can read an interview with them here

Doesn't quite fit the 'got what was coming to them hur hur' narrative does it?

53rdAndBird Fri 16-Dec-16 19:46:00

You think BNP and EDL are bad?

Yes. Do you not?

user1481838270 Fri 16-Dec-16 19:53:30

Another crime not carried by The Guardian:

A 30-year-old British soldier who climbed into a six-year-old girl's bedroom in Austria before raping her has been jailed for nine years.Craig Stormey, of the 7th Parachute Regiment Royal Horse Artillery, was taking part in an alpine skiing course in the Stubai Valley, Tyrol when the incident occurred The court in Innsbruck heard Stormey was earlier drinking with friends but claimed to have no memory of what transpired. He entered the house via an unlocked door, entered the child's room, undressed and seriously assaulted her. Stormey was then confronted by the girl's father, who was woken by the commotion.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/austria-british-soldier-craig-stormey-receives-9-year-jail-sentence-raping-6-year-old-girl-1510856

BreakWindandFire Fri 16-Dec-16 19:59:52

You think BNP and EDL are bad?

Umm....yes?

Anyway the BNP would be delighted with Alice Gross' horrible death at the hands of a Aryan and would delighted in the suffering of her Jewish family.

bestofboth Fri 16-Dec-16 20:39:59

He did it because he's a violent murderer, not because he's an immigrant.

Non immigrants also murder.

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