Unicef: out of all the industrialised nations Britain comes bottom.

[Callisto]

Anyone suprised? The full report is here: unicef report

[Callisto]

And the BBC report is here: BBC

[Callisto]

Just realised what a crap title this is. It should read: Of all industrialised nations Britain comes bottom in child well-being. Sorry.

[Cloudhopper]

I read the Guardian coverage this morning. It is really sad but I would guess that as a society we don't even know where to start in improving things.

[Sheraz]

It is sad and unfortunately true. i work in the field of child protection and the level of child poverty is shocking.
It is the 21st century and there are still children out there who don't even own a proper pair of shoes ( I know of a child who goes to school in a pair of wellies every day). Civilised society - I donn' think so. The gap between rich and poor is growing ever bigger.

[chestnutty]

Thought some of their indicators were a bit off.
Only 65% of 15 year olds eat dinner most days with their parents compared to 95% of Italians. Watched this on news last night and my dds (14 and 16) feel more deprived when I make them have dinner with us.

[Cloudhopper]

I agree sherz. The gap between rich and poor has become ever more visible and destructive in recent years.

The rich seem to have an attitude that anyone not as fortunate as them is an idle, stupid and choosing not to do anything about their situation.(witness more or less every debate about second homes, single mothers etc)

Social mobility is grinding to a halt, which means that people who are badly off have less chance than ever of escaping the poverty trap.

Poverty isn't necessarily the only cause of this though. Although 16% of children live below the poverty line, many of the measures encapsulate over 30% of children. We are all to blame.

[admylin]

I live in germany and I would never have thought they would score better. Their schooling at primary level is terrible compared to UK and nearly every week we seem to hear of kids being taken out of cold, dirty flats - not suitable even for animals to live in. Dead babys are also common in the news.

[Bugsy2]

This report is so depressing. I watched Newsnight with Paxman last night & nearly wept when they played the Newsround report of children's own views & experiences.
Makes me want to do something - but I don't know where to start.

[Cloudhopper]

I'm there with you bugsy. I just can't think where we start.

[Sheraz]

This country seems to have developed an ' I'm alright Jcak' attitude. There is no neighbourliness, and people are more interested in their possessions than ever before.
It is mnifested in the general rudeness and aggression that we all face on a daily basis. ( road rage, parking rage, shopping rage)
People don't want to get involved in other's problems because they fear the outcome.

[Cloudhopper]

You've only got to look at the second homes thread to understand how ingrained the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude is.

Let's all trample over each other in our race to get as much as we can for ourselves, and bugger everyone else.

Whether this is a symptom of something or the cause, I am not sure.

[GrumpyOldHorsewoman]

It is very depressing, but then Britain has become a very depressing place, hasn't it. I'm incredibly disillusioned with our lack of quality of life, and that is as much of an issue as the poverty of a nation that should have next to none.

I have lived in various parts of the country, due to DH's job (we have to go where the work is). I have lived in Dorset, Hamshire, Suffolk, London and currently Nottinghamshire (which is, so far, the worst of them all). Obviously, provision for leisure is amply provided in London, although can often be prohibitively expensive, but also includes great free places like the museums, galleries etc. Where I live at the moment there is F** all for anyone to do. It is a fairly down-at-heel area, and obviously a lack of surplus income. Therefore, there is also a total lack of anywhere to go or things to do because nobody has the money to spend on leisure anyway. I spent a large chunk of my childhood in the US, and visit my parents there frequently (they divide their life between the US and UK) and I have to say that, as soon as I can afford to, I am emigrating. Say what you like about Americans, but where my parents live has more community spirit and an abundance of things to do than anywhere I have ever lived in England. It is child-friendly and has a real, affordable quality of life for an average person. Many local events are free, or based at the schools, which practically double as large, well-equipped community centres. I know the pitfalls, but, generally speaking, would far rather live there full time than this country. I feel myself getting more depressed as the days go on here. Life just seems to revolve around working/school and sleeping. No wonder our children are at the bottom of the 'happiness league table'

[franca70]

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1938423,00.html

sorry can't do links, but I think this is a good article on chidlren's poverty. It was written a few months ago.

[Chandra]

I was a bit surprised about the education bit, as I was expecting the UK to score much better on that. But I was not so surprised at the rest.

What I apreciate from my own personal experience when I'm out and about with my son is that, whereas in other countries children are celebrated -in terms of everyone being nice, warm and even fussy around them, which I think makes them feel very special-, here he is invisible, even old people was afraid of cooing at him as a baby, I guess at the fear of being misinterpreted by the mother. And he is just an object to be frowned upon if he is with us outside after 7:30. Although, the positive point of it, is that grown ups get to have a well deserved adult time.

In terms of communication between the family, it is my belief that it takes place more efficiently when all the family sits around a table for eating. No distractions (apart from the food), it's a daily time to spend together regardless of the weather and economical situation.
This time may be dirupted by work commitments but at the end of the day most parents are fortunate to leave work before 6, and yet, lots of children don't eat regularly with their parents. Eating in front of the television, or putting the children to bed before the adults sit to eat is handy and relaxing (We do it some days, I agree) but it doesn't allow for the family to communicate about what has been going on during the day. My main cultural shock had been to know that a small, but significant, number of people don't even have a dinning/breakfast table to eat together.

But in terms of food, I think that is unfair to evaluate the UK using the same parameters as for the Med countries. Blame it on the weather, but historically speaking, Britain may not have the same nutritional habits as the mediterranean countries for the simple reason that up until recently many fruits and vegetables were not being grown around here or were simply not available, therefore they didn't belong to the tipical day to day diet. Things are changing, and changing fast but having fresh fruit and vegetables a la Gillian is, frankly, still VERY expensive, so many families may only afford to go for pre processed food. So it is very easy to say we don't eat as well as the italians but the italians don't have to pay such high prices for their food.

[seb1]

I quite fancy reading this book I think it will make interesting reading affluenza

[GrumpyOldHorsewoman]

How many 'average' people now have Plasma TVs, expensive games consoles, designer clothes, expensive furniture but no kind of life? Shopping has become a national pastime, and seems to be the only leisure activity available to many. That and drinking. Outside the major cities, we are very poor when it comes to family-orientated activity. If you want to go to a theme park or such like, you pay through the nose, If (like me) you want quality activities for the family, they are very thin on the ground. It seems that nobody wants to provide any family entertainment that doesn't net them a small fortune. I recently took my DD2 to see Dora The Explorer live on stage. She absolutely loved it. It cost in the region of £50 for just us two to be entertained for about 2 hours. No way could I keep that up!

[Callisto]

Trouble is, there are so many things that need to be addressed before we can start to give our children a proper childhood again.

Devaluing parents who want to stay at home and bring up their children is very wrong and with housing being so expensive most of us have no choice in the matter anyway and both parents have to work.

The celeb-led society we live in (where Robbie in Rehab is more important than a little girl being strangled) is incredibly damaging not only to our children but to the whole of society.

Our exam and league table driven education system is dreadful and getting worse and putting more unnecessary pressure on children.

We really lack good role models in this country. We have a grasping and greedy PM and wife who think nothing of jetting off to a celeb's house; we have a super model who snorts coke and gets even bigger contracts, we have footballers being revered for appalling behaviour on and off the pitch. It is hopeless and I pray that my partner and I will get to Canada sooner rather than later.

[Aderyneryn]

It's really worth looking at the whole of the UNICEF report and looking at each of the sub categories. The UK score highly or at least mid-range in a lot of categories.

It's most disheartening to see some of the categories that we score low in and to see the media's interpratation of this report. It might have been nice if some of them could pick up on the good parts.



e.g. UK is the 6th highest in

"Mean number of days on which young people age
11, 13, and 15 report being physically active for one hour or more
of the previous/typical week"

UK ranks 9th for

"Educational achievement of 15 year-olds, an overview of reading,
mathematical and scientific literacy."

UK ranks 12th for

"Percentage of 15 year-olds whose parents spend time ?just talking to
them? several times per week"

UK ranks 2nd from top for low amount of deaths and injuries per 100,000 under 19 years



I'm astounded that the percentage of 15 year olds who reported having had sex was 40%. 40% really? Or am I just naive?

[Bugsy2]

But Aderyneryn, given that we are one of the wealthiest countries, I would really have hoped to see us perform soooooooooooooo much better.

[GrumpyOldHorsewoman]

Callisto, agree totally. I was shocked beyond belief when the radio news yesterday led with the story of Robbie in rehab and followed it up with a disturbingly graphic account of that poor baby. It's as though we are believed to be so hardened to the awful things that happen that
a) The 'celebrity' story is seen as more newsworthy, and
b) It doesn't matter how much they tell us about the nature of the heinous murder of a child, they can practically paint the picture of the state her poor little body was in when found, and how she got that way and we have no right to be upset. If I wanted to be a forensic pathologist I would have to accept these gruesome details, but I'm not, so why not just keep to the simple facts rather than every last despicable detail. Who on earth needs to know that much information? My 3 year old DD kept asking me why I was crying -was I OK? I felt awful that I had to subject her to my emotions, but also really angry with the news for including so much detail. This was a two year old, FFS. An innocent baby, but her murder was given less consideration than Twatface Williams in rehab again. I despair.

[expatinscotland]

Capitalist society does not value those who do not generate wealth. That includes children, the elderly and the vulnerable.

You reap what you sow.

[expatinscotland]

Am NOT talking about war-tone or developing countries in which you have the very real threat of famine, pestilence, forced to become a child soldier as a boy or raped and impregnanted, only to stand a huge chance of dying in childbirth, if you're a girl.

[GrumpyOldHorsewoman]

expat, I think you have a US connection, do you not? Do you think that (generally speaking) the US is more child-friendly than the UK? It certainly is in my experience, and they are the Daddy of capitalism (one of their downfalls, methinks). Now, the vulnerable would be a different matter... but perhaps a change of administration... (she thinks hopefully)

[Chandra]

Grumpy, there was a similar rape of a 2 year old in York a couple of years ago, seeing the news last night I begin to wonder if concentrating in so much details is actually breaking the boundaries of unnacceptable behaviour.