Renewable energy and storage issues

[BungoWomble]

Since the main problem that is always chucked at those of us who would like to see more renewable energy is the question of energy storage, people might like to know that there are advances being made in that area. Advances are possible with funding.

www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall
www.ft.com/content/b62b356e-2d10-11e6-bf8d-26294ad519fc

Tesla is not a mainstream name here, but they are a leader in the production of electric cars, high-end ones with high performance. They're trying to bring the cost down to mid-market range. Tesla is incidentally linked to the SpaceX company, both run by one Elon Musk. Someone give the man a Nobel prize. I wonder what could have been achieved by now if there had been serious political interest.

[GardeningWithDynamite]

We had solar panels fitted about a year ago. Powerwall wasn't available then, otherwise we might have got them and we couldn't wait because the subsidies were about to be cut. We did get ordinary batteries though.

We got a Leaf too (and love it). Sadly a Tesla car is a bit out of the budget.

[specialsubject]

Interesting, thank you. I am waiting for further price drops in panels and batteries, UK power grid getting very fragile now thanks to years of stupid policies and greenwash.

[pennycarbonara]

Good idea to mention this as probably a lot of people won't be aware.

As these technologies improve, something I'm hoping that will become available in the next 18 months or so is a decent range of solar powerbanks that can run plug-in items such as laptops (there's already an abundance for USB devices, but almost no decent ones for other stuff yet. )
It is terrible that so few rental homes have solar, but I'd be very surprised if anything is done to change that under this government.

[BungoWomble]

As a private tenant for 20 years + I think the housing situation is a major obstacle to changing domestic energy over to renewables. Tenants have no control over what energy systems landlords supply, and landlords have little incentive to improve the housing stock at all. For the majority who aspire to be owner-occupiers the expense of housing ensures mortgage costs rather than improvements will take up the majority of budgets. It's another problem that has been allowed to build up for over 30 years with no real thought for the consequences.

[Quornflakes]

Yip they are good developments, I like Elon, but probably out of price range for my life time. Hopefully will be good for my grandchildren. Also my home is heated by gas.

I think we need a massive push to get the coal powered stations shut down.
I saw an excellent interview by Stephen Tindale a few days ago (ex boss of green peace), he explained that the best thing we can do for the environment in the short term is replace coal for shale. I also hope the UK gets started on a tidal lagoon, betting that will take 20 years to build.

[HalloToJasonIsaacs]

I'm unconvinced that pure battery storage will be the answer for the largest scale because it's so often dependent on relatively rare elements. If it is the way though then the obvious answer is to replace the millions of domestic and consumer vehicles which currently use internal combustion engines to ones with electric batteries and use them as a reservoir for a smart grid.

Personally though I think Power to Gas is the answer - using surplus renewable power to store energy in the form of hydrogen or methane, which can then be used in fuel cells in homes or vehicles.

[228agreenend]

I'd love a tesla car but can't afford it.

[cdtaylornats]

Local government could do their bit by insisting new industrial or retail buildings should have to install roof mounted solar panels

[BungoWomble]

I wonder if local government would be allowed to do that, or whether it would be viewed as putting too much red tape in front of business. But it would be good if they could. I know there were plans to put solar panels on top of council houses in some parts of Lancashire, I don't know if they were able to go ahead.

[specialsubject]

Solar makes zero financial sense at the moment - check your epc, you will see that payoff is about a century. That is why you won't find it on rentals.

The payoff for the wind turbine on the roof is even longer... Obvious stupid idea of course.

[specialsubject]

What would make sense is to refuse planning on any UK building that needs aircon and has sealed windows.

[cdtaylornats]

If you made big companies invest in solar I think the unit prices would fall considerably if nothing else because they could get together and ship them in from China en masse.

Costa is trialling it www.whitbread.co.uk/about-us/our-stories/Costa-opens-the-first-zero-energy-coffee-shop-in-the-uk.html

[burdog]

The national grid is looking into battery storage. There is a project in the pipeline.

[LurkingHusband]

Here's a good site to study if you want to talk UK electricity.

Last night the UK electricity production was flat out, with solar and wind contributing .... 0% (despite the billions spent on them).

You would need a storage capacity of gigawatts to make a dent in that.

[Suppermummy02]

And that's why we need to get rid of coal powered stations and replace them with shale.

[LurkingHusband]

I also hope the UK gets started on a tidal lagoon

The current max demand in the UK is around 50GW. Unlikely to fall anytime soon.

What proportion of that will a tidal lagoon reliably supply ? 1, 2GW ?

[GrumpyOldBag]

Thanks for posting this OP.

Some large scale battery storage projects are now starting to come through in planning, where there is grid capacity & a grid connection.

I do think the costs will fall dramatically, as they have with solar panels.

We have 2 electric vehicles in our household now - one is a Tesla. Awesome car.

[lurkinghusband]

Some large scale battery storage projects are now starting to come through in planning, where there is grid capacity & a grid connection.

Define "large scale" ...

[GrumpyOldBag]

40 MW and larger.

[lurkinghusband]

40 MW and larger.

How many MWh ? We'd need about 250GWh to allow renewables to make any inroads into current demand (let alone future).

250GWh storage would provide about 10GW (20% of current maximum demand) for a day.

I have a feeling we are nowhere near that ...

[GrumpyOldBag]

Of course not, but you have to start somewhere.

Renewables are now supplying 25% of our electricity - that's a huge increase from a few years' ago.

[lurkinghusband]

Renewables are now supplying 25% of our electricity - that's a huge increase from a few years' ago.

Oh really ?

www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

10% of 39GW currently

[GrumpyOldBag]

25% measured over the course of the year, not at this actual moment.

Government figures.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/28/record-46-of-uks-electricity-generated-by-clean-energy-sources-in-2015

[specialsubject]

Ah yes, typical UK winter months conditions - cold and still. A wind turbine is zero use in these conditions, and in fact needs diesel to turn it or it jams up.

Good to see that the energy crisis is also the fault of private landlords. Shelter love people that swallow their surveys without asking for evidence.

[pennycarbonara]

Shelter love people that swallow their surveys without asking for evidence.

Non sequitur. Nobody cited Shelter research; which report(s) do you mean, and what's your evidence against ?

Private landlords do have a contribution to energy wastage. How could they not? homeowners who don't make improvements do as well.
If there weren't issues with landlords and energy efficiency, there wouldn't have been a need for the legislation against letting EPC F and G rated properties from 2018. Britain has draughtier properties in worse repair than most other European countries.