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Transgender pupil wins right to wear girls uniform

(270 Posts)
ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 21:34:56

I think it is absolutely right that a school pupil of whichever sex can wear the traditional uniform of either sex.

However, I am slightly more concerned that this individual has also been granted the right to use toilet and changing facilities of the opposite sex - this bothers me as these areas are sex segregated for good reason sad

This is in the UK btw.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 21:35:17

AnnaForbes Tue 18-Oct-16 21:37:18

I'd be very uneasy if my secondary school dd was made to share toilet facilities with an 18 year old male. I hope the parents make their voices heard, I would.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 21:39:50

Lily's lawyer told the school they were in breach of the equality act - I don't know how parents can really respond to it negatively without being labeled bigoted transphobes.

Lorelei76 Tue 18-Oct-16 21:44:06

Op I'd get this moved to Chat maybe. I think a lot of people will be interested and worried and will miss seeing it here.

I note the lawyer uses the word transsexual but there's no information regarding medical treatment.

HermioneWeasley Tue 18-Oct-16 21:45:11

So an 18 year old male has been allowed to use the girls' changing rooms? And this is progress?

FFS, women and girls have no rights any more.

Lily can fuck off

Emochild Tue 18-Oct-16 21:49:24

Lily’s petition called on transgender pupils to be able to ‘abide by the dress code and use the bathrooms of their correct gender’.

So lily should be using the boy's bathroom then!

ageingrunner Tue 18-Oct-16 21:50:34

The horror the horror of being a teenage girl and a teenage boy allowed in your changing room and toilets. I would not have been able to cope with that. The school apologised? Are they going to apologise to their female pupils about their loss of privacy and dignity?

ageingrunner Tue 18-Oct-16 21:51:38

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Heratnumber7 Tue 18-Oct-16 21:55:50

I run a Guide unit. Guiding is a girls only organisation.
On a recent training we were told we have to admit transgender boys (i.e. Boys who think they are a girl ).
All v well so far. But what would we do on a sleepover, particularly if the (teenage boy) is pre op?
And what about an adult male who is transgender? Wouldshoukd he/she be allowed to share a room with the girls? By law, yes. But as a parent, I wouldn't be happy with that.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 21:56:13


No. Although in recent years the use of gender as a polite way of saying sex has become mainstream it is not really correct.

Sex is a tangible fact. Gender isn't. It's really important to keep them seperate because of this.

Amandahugandkisses Tue 18-Oct-16 21:57:14


ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 21:58:03

*On a recent training we were told we have to admit transgender boys (i.e. Boys who think they are a girl ).
All v well so far. But what would we do on a sleepover, particularly if the (teenage boy) is pre op?*

Were these questions not raised at training? I don't much about guiding, but I'm guessing the vast majority of (legal, valid) reasons why makes are excluded would also pertain to MtT?

Heratnumber7 Tue 18-Oct-16 22:04:07

The question was raised, and we were told we have to comply with the law.

Personally, I think the law is an ass.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 22:05:34

But surely the Guides has an exemption from Equality law because they don't currently have to admit males?

TheCompanyOfCats Tue 18-Oct-16 22:06:45

Yy ageing, it's as simple as that. To my mind anyway.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 22:06:53

I do think that is very sad though, I'm guessing any group with an MtT would simply have to not do overnights etc?

Heratnumber7 Tue 18-Oct-16 22:12:06

Guides don't have to admit makes. But these are makes identifying as females, and therefore it's apparently discrimination not to admit them.

Same would go for a girls boarding school I guess.

My concern is that if a man puts a frock in and says he's a woman, I seem to have to take his word for it, with no doctors certificate, psychiatrist report or anything.
He could just be a man with a thing about little girls.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 22:37:06

At least the guidance says that if members are uncomfortable sharing sleeping/changing/ bathroom facilities they should be accommodated.

Very sad though, thatbGuiding is no longer a safe female space.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 22:42:13

*Now explain to the Guides the difference between sex and gender: ‘sex’ tends to refer to biological
characteristics (genitalia, body shape, hormones and so on), while ‘gender’ tends to refer to cultural
or social ones.*

*For most people, the sex they were assigned at birth based on their physical characteristics matches
their sense of their own gender. However, for a transgender (trans) person the gender they were
assigned at birth does not match their gender identity. So, for example, they may have been assigned
male at birth based on physical characteristics but feel that their inner self is female, or they may
feel that they are neither male nor female.*

Is it just me or does the first paragraph directly contradict the second confused

Emochild Tue 18-Oct-16 22:57:09


I am aware of the difference between sex and gender

I made no mistake in my post

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 23:01:51

Lily’s petition called on transgender pupils to be able to ‘abide by the dress code and use the bathrooms of their correct gender’.

So lily should be using the boy's bathroom then!

That depends on whether they are talking about sex or gender in the first para, and whether bathrooms are segregated by sex or gender. I am willing to accept that Lily chooses to identify as feminine (gender) but they are indisputably male (sex)

If the bathrooms are segregated by gender then Lily should use the girls', if by sex, the boys'

TheCraicDealer Tue 18-Oct-16 23:07:14

I read the Buzzfeed article and what struck me is that Lily (who is a year behind her age group as she was 'self taught' for a year hmm) seemed to breeze into school wearing a skirt and expect everyone to just comply. Who allows their child to do that? What parent, on hearing their child tell them that they're trans or whatever, wouldn't go, "ok, here's how we're going to deal with this and I'm going to speak to the school and make sure you get the help and support you need". Nope! Just waved 'her' off to school. Doing that to a child with mental health/gender issues and leaving them to deal with the fallout on their own? That to me says it all- probably thought it was another one of their phases and just let them crack on.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 18-Oct-16 23:33:32

Guidance from the Department for Education on interpreting the Equality Act advises that it is “unlawful for schools to treat pupils less favourably because of their gender reassignment” and that this includes “anyone who is undergoing, has undergone, or is proposing to undergo a process” of gender transition.

"Proposing to undergo a process of gender transition" shock

Just read that buzzfeed article and was a bit hmm at the self-taught by tumblr for a year, I guess as with so many of these case there is something else going on in their lives.

Heratnumber7 Tue 18-Oct-16 23:37:55

Exactly. So any male, who says he thinks he's a female, must not be discriminated against by being made to sleep in a different bedroom from people who are female from birth. Total disregard for people born women and their rights.

I repeat. Th law is an ass.

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