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Remainers and Leave regretters

(56 Posts)
Niamer Mon 26-Sep-16 16:25:51

For those of you still with Brexit Blues, like me, Vote for Europe offers some hope. It encourages tactical voting to have pro- EU parliamentary candidates elected. The Witney by-election is the one to watch!

lalalonglegs Mon 26-Sep-16 17:22:27

I would love to see the Tories getting their arses kicked in Witney - what splendid karma that would be - but Cameron did get a majority of more than 25,000 there 16 months ago...

On the other hand, Oxford and its environs were quite Remain in the referendum.

Niamer Mon 26-Sep-16 17:30:48

Me too Lala; it'll be the first by-election I have ever been that interested to know the results! Well if all the voters are feeling the same way as me towards the Tories, there is hope!

prh47bridge Mon 26-Sep-16 18:41:45

Sorry to disappoint but there is no realistic chance of anyone other than the Conservatives winning the by-election. At the 2015 election Cameron got over 60% of the votes cast. There have been 8 elections in this seat. The Conservatives have won every time. The only time it has been held by another party is when Shaun Woodward defected from the Conservatives to Labour. The lowest vote share the Conservatives have ever received is 43% and they have been over 50% in 5 of the 8 elections. The main interest in this election is around who will finish second with Labour the favourites.

As someone who voted Remain I have to say I am getting fed up with these attempts to overturn a democratic vote. We voted to leave the EU. Whilst I don't agree with that choice I accept that it is the democratic will of the people.

RortyCrankle Mon 26-Sep-16 20:19:48

I have to own up to being a Conservative Leave voter who doesn't have a single regret.

The chances of the Witney by-election being won by anyone other than the Conservatives are completely nil. To whom do you think they will swap their allegiance? The party led by the person with the biggest ego in British politics, AKA Corbyn? I bet they can't wait to cosy up to him and his IRA and Hamas pals. Perhaps not.

As for voting for Remainers in by-elections - that will have zero effect on the Government's actions but go ahead if it makes you feel better.

I would like to say how much I admire your voice of reason, prh47bridge compared to the normal dirge-like negativity posted by the majority of Remainers on the EU Referendum forum who I am sure will be along later to add their own doom-laden comments smile

Niamer Mon 26-Sep-16 21:23:48

We did vote to leave the EU, after a dubious campaign and the result of which threatens to divide the UK, stunt economic growth and has already given a fast-pass to our country's racists to cry "Keep 'em out". I have wrestled with myself over the question of trying to go against democracy, but actually I just cannot take Brexit sitting down. It was not as simple a matter as Leave or Remain with Article 50 being triggered on 24 June, and the shilly shallying continues. In the mean time pro- Europeans have every right to campaign for a close relationship with Europe, a soft Brexit or even no Brexit, just as Leavers can have their say.

cdtaylornats Mon 26-Sep-16 21:24:34

I voted Remain and I'm heartily sick of the disappointed whinging on and predicting disaster. Generally the EU is not made up of Governments who want to hurt themselves. Germany wants to sell us cars, Spain wants to fish our waters, France wants to sell us produce and they all want to sell us wine.

Niamer Mon 26-Sep-16 21:29:47

Rortycrankle - Libdems are the party representing the views of Remainers and many tory supporters have already swapped their allegiance. For me, they are the voice of reason in frightening political times, and judging by the growth in membership, many are feeling the same. I agree it may not be enough to win Witney, but then 2016 has brought a lot of unexpected events...

Niamer Mon 26-Sep-16 21:33:38

cdtaylornats it is good to hear some positivity and a good point about other European governments. I cannot feel 100% confident about our own however.

prh47bridge Mon 26-Sep-16 22:30:49

many tory supporters have already swapped their allegiance

Some may have but there is no evidence of it in the polls. Since the referendum support for the Conservatives has risen strongly with most polls now showing them above 40%. The LibDems have barely moved and are polling at around 6-8%.

RortyCrankle Mon 26-Sep-16 22:49:21

My personal feeling is that the Libdems will never get sufficient support to ever form a government but maybe they will prove me wrong.

Apparently there has been a huge increase in new membership of the Labour Party but I think that will be balanced by those in the centre who are now cancelling their membership in disgust and protest at Corbyn presiding over the destruction of the Party. He, of course, renders the Party unelectable in a GE.

Many Remainers make the mistaken assumption that Leavers were only voting Leave because of immigration which is absolutely not true. It was way down my list of reasons, I have absolutely no problem with people moving to the UK to do jobs which we need filled and who will pay their taxes - is that not reasonable?

I totally agree with cdtaylornats - do you really think EU countries are not going to want an arrangement whereby they can still sell their goods to us? We are Germany's 3rd biggest importing country.

Good luck with your campaigning although I'm not sure what you think you can achieve.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Mon 26-Sep-16 23:27:53

I voted remain

I to am fed up of the call for another referendum we voted to leave for change and now that has to be worked out

DiegeticMuch Tue 27-Sep-16 00:26:01

I'm a Remainer and a floating voter (Cons/Lab). I agree with the majority on this thread - we need to accept the vote and get on with the Brexit process. I won't be campaigning or signing pointless petitions. I think we have the right PM to steer us through this.

twofingerstoGideon Tue 27-Sep-16 09:10:24

I'm a Remainer and don't accept that the referendum outcome, which was 'advisory' in any case, is the right decision for our country. I will therefore continue to write to my MP to ask what 'Brexit means Brexit' means. If I could vote tactically I would. There are many thousands of us who feel the same.

I also believe we need parliamentary approval to 'Brexit' as we are a parliamentary democracy. The House of Lords Constitution Committee agrees.

I can only think that remain voters who are now willing to quietly accept things didn't really have the courage of their convictions in the first place.

I'm sure all you Tory admirers will recognise this quote: You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning.

mumandgran61 Tue 27-Sep-16 09:18:15

Going back to the Witney by election - I'm a Witney constituent, and while I agree that you could put a blue rosette on a dead donkey and it would still get voted in, we have an excellent local Labour candidate who managed to make a small dent in the Tory majority last time. There are a lot of people round here who would love to see that dent get much bigger. If the constituency was only made up of Witney itself, it wouldn't be anything like such a done deal, but all the very affluent Cotswold villages which make up the rest of the constituency know which side of their bread is buttered.

HardcoreLadyType Tue 27-Sep-16 09:22:35

Yes a majority voted to leave, but really, we had 48% of people voting for remaining, and 52% voting for "something different". Of the 52%, some are hard Brexiteers, some want a "Norway" deal, and many, many don't really know what they want, just "not this". And let's face it, many voted for better funding for the NHS, which wasn't actually on the table.

I would say the 48% represents more people than any other group, really.

LurkingHusband Tue 27-Sep-16 09:24:47


LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt Tue 27-Sep-16 09:28:45

I live in one of the adjacent constituencies, and agree that there is no chance of this area voting anything other than Tory. My constituency is virtually identical to Witney and it has never not had a Tory MP. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance going on locally where people are very unhappy that we are set to lose our local hospital (which is also used by some of Cameron's constituents) and have to travel an hour or more to Oxford in an emergency, but vehemently deny that this has anything to do with government policy.

Peregrina Tue 27-Sep-16 09:32:46

I am a Remainer too, and it's about time we heard something of more substance, that 'Brexit means Brexit, and we are going to make a success of it'. Empty words as far as I am concerned.

What are we going to export? Which industries will we build up in order to enable this? How will we make good the shortfall in Health Care staff if European nationals decide they have had enough? What is being done to call out the racists - we are constantly being told "I'm not against immigration," but I have seen very few posters deploring the racist attacks. Just some questions for a starter.

What do we see instead? Fox, Johnson and Davis opening their mouths, uttering inanities and being slapped down by May. Why should we have confidence in a bunch of Charlies like that?

Peregrina Tue 27-Sep-16 09:42:07

LordRothermere - are you in Banbury? I am in Oxford West and Abingdon and we never had anything other than a Tory MP until 1997 when it went to the Lib Dems. It was won back by a very slender majority in 2010, when the sitting MP who had been quite popular, stood down. The majority increased substantially last time, but still under 10,000 when the Lib Dems were slaughtered so, with a solid Remain constituency, it could go back.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt Tue 27-Sep-16 09:53:12

Peregrina - yes, in Banbury. No chance of anything other than a Tory here, ever, and it was a Leave vote too. Banbury itself is quite a Labour town, from what I can make out, but much of the constituency is very Tory county set, and the MP has an 18,000 majority. Lib Dems don't do well here.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt Tue 27-Sep-16 09:53:54

country set, not county.

Niamer Tue 27-Sep-16 10:43:48

Many Remainers make the mistaken assumption that Leavers were only voting Leave because of immigration which is absolutely not true. It was way down my list of reasons, I have absolutely no problem with people moving to the UK to do jobs which we need filled and who will pay their taxes - is that not reasonable?

It is the government that are making this incorrect assumption, Rorty. TM has categorically stated that the British people have voted for an end to free movement and this is a basis for Brexit negotiations. Leave voters had all manner of reasons for their choice I am sure and TM has no evidence to back her interpretation of the vote. This is one of many reasons why I will continue to campaign for Vote for Europe and other pro-European groups.

prh47bridge Tue 27-Sep-16 14:14:02

TM has no evidence to back her interpretation of the vote

Prior to the poll immigration was consistently polling as the top issue in determining how people would vote. There is evidence that the immigration numbers released shortly before referendum day had a significant impact on the outcome.

According to polling since the referendum the top 3 reasons for voting leave were:

- decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK
- regain control over immigration and borders
- remaining meant little or no choice about EU expanding membership or powers

Whilst it is not the case that all Leave voters were concerned about immigration it is clear that many of them were, as indeed were significant numbers of Remain voters.

I think it is not unreasonable to assume that the electorate are unhappy with free movement and want some controls in place. That means an end to free movement. It does not necessarily mean an end to all movement.

And, of course, inasmuch as the government is saying anything at the moment (and they are trying hard not to say too much) they are setting out a negotiating position.

I have no problem with people campaigning in favour of Europe. However I do not think there should be a second referendum or that parliament should block Brexit. That smacks of asking people again until they give the "right" answer - one of the things that puts people off the EU.

twofingerstoGideon Tue 27-Sep-16 14:38:49

or that parliament should block Brexit
Why should Parliament NOT block Brexit if they believe that going ahead will be detrimental to the country? Last time I looked, we still lived in a parliamentary democracy.
'The people have spoken' is not sufficient justification for such major - and potentially disastrous - change. We need to be absolutely sure of what we are doing. At the moment, business leaders, lawyers, economists etc are not convinced.
Obviously, if the government comes up with a spiffing Brexit deal that can be guaranteed, as far as possible, not to ruin the economy that would be a different matter.
Then maybe they could turn their attention to healing the massive divisions in our society.

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