"Young muslims want Sharia law in the UK" - Today's telegraph

[hecciesmum]

I can't help but wonder when I read these kind of scare tactic articles .....is this 40% of all young british muslims, or 40% of young british muslim men? Why do young men seem so much angrier than young women - or arn't they?

is it just me that thinks that if women were in charge the world would be a much more peaceful place?? We reason through problems - men just want to have a good fight to sort it out - be that verbally or physically.

Ok - have probably opened up a can of worms, but....Discuss!?

Hecsmum

front page of www.telegraph.co.uk.......sorry - am crap at doing links

[SecondhandRose]

Heccie, what exactly is Sharia law?

[Tortington]

is that judes sister?

[hecciesmum]

To be honest I don't understand that much about Sharia law, but have heard various stories that some of the things it entails are things such as cutting hands off those who steal, beheading those who are homosexuals, if a woman is raped she has to provide a number of male witnesses before she has a case...that kind of thing. But, the mechanics aside, they are calling for Islamic law, over the rule of law we currently have.

I'd love to hear some reponses from Muslim women who use this site as i'm sure no nother alive would want her sons radicalised for whatever cause, whatever her religion ----and why is it young men....

There are more positive role models of young muslim women promoting tolerance, but I don't see as many men preaching this view....or maybe the media doesn't want us to see that side.....

dunno

[kittylette]

this is a british country, ruled by british law,

live here - obey OUR law

simple

[PeachyClair]

Seriously doubt the factual basis of these statistics.

Agree that fi you want Shar'a law go and find a country where it exists. Except you won't, because real Shari's Law bears little resemblance to that strange culture of fear and retribution carried out in some Islamic nations.

For example, in Nigeria they stone women for adultery, bloodyb awful, they claim it is prescribed under Shari's, yet under Shari'a it states that punishment / convidtion only happens if 4 witnesses see'organ enter organ'.

Now unless said victim is a porn star actress hw likely si this?


Shari's law is awful, it realy is. The system of justice perpetrated by some of these states and claimed to be Shari'a is even worse.

[PeachyClair]

Hecciesmum there ARE young men preaching tolerance- loads of them at our local Mosque, for example. Not sure that makes good TV though...

[Greensleeves]

Do they really?

Um - tough shit!!!!

[funkimummy]

I think these scaremonger tactics are awful. I have worked with many upstanding muslims within the NHS, and they are often punished purely for their race.

A top consultant I once knew got taken to a police station and made to sit in a cell before they could interview him about a stone sized hole he had in his rear break-light when he was pulled over. Was he speeding? No! Was he driving recklessly, no!

It's a pity that the Guardian and the Telegraph don't do more to instil a sense of wellbeing among our diverse communities, rather than estrange them further.

I lived under Sharia law as a child in a largely Muslim country. All I can say is, this is the UK, and anyone who chooses to live in the UK must abide by it's law, whether their creed or religion agrees with it or not.

[MerryMarigold]

It's a pity that the Guardian and the Telegraph don't do more to instil a sense of wellbeing among our diverse communities, rather than estrange them further.


I SO agree, funkimummy.

[snowleopard]

Exactly Greeny. Oh and I would like stricter speeding laws, a vastly improved education system and laws to enforce environmental policies - but maybe I have to achieve whatever I can in that direction through democratic means.

I do wonder about the young men/youth issue here. I've noticed that generally in societies, young men are into violence and bloodlust - no surprise there. Most computer games are all about killing people, young men fight in the streets, it is young men who are recruited to go to war and be killers. Young men's bloodlust is useful to a society - in war - and also dangerous, which is why it's diverted into things like sport, computer games and films. Young men basically, generally, have a drive to kill and be violent, though it may or may not be well controlled.

When something like the current religious/east-west situation arises, it's easy for young men to see an "excuse" (though they may not consciously realise it) to become extreme and for killing and thinking about killing to become legitimised in their minds. The same thing can happen in situations like the former Yugoslavia, where men from certain groups became killers and ran concentration camps where they victimised their former neighbours. Given that they had all lived peacefully together beforehand (as have muslims with everyone else in the UK, for years and years) I think radicalisation is less about ideology in its own right, and more about using idology to fulfill and channel bloodlust.

There, I discussed!

[speedymama]

Islam is a religion, not race so you have asian, white, black etc Muslims.

My cousin worked in the Middle East as a nurse and everytime she left the British complex, she had to cover up as the law dictated. When in Rome.....

Most Muslims are law abiding people who adhere to the law of the country. For the minority who want this Sharia Law, well there are nearly 50 Muslim countries in the world - I'm sure they can find one that will furnish them with the lifestyle that they seek.

[fuzzywuzzy]

I just knew this would pop up on MN.

According to Shariah law (islamic law), a muslim must abide by the laws of the country in which they reside.....

I find statistics quoted in papers to be a little skewed, I can't imagine the 40% quoted could possibly be an exact percentage of all muslims living in the UK, because I for one was not asked (neither were any member of my family, man woman or child), so that 40% is out to begin with.

[paulaplumpbottom]

Thats a goof post snow leopard. I to think society encourages young men to be violent. I am shocked by what is portrayed in video games especially. Its awful.

[Blu]

As far as I can see there is a sizable minority of Mn-ers who are in favour of a bit of hand'chopping and stoning, for certain categories of criminals.
Basically, it's a difference in style, isn't it? Retribution or punishment followed by rehabilitation and forgiveness. (the rest of Sharia law governs much less sensational areas of life, afaik)

I know and work with - and am related to - loads of muslims and none of them want Sharia law to rule the UK.

[Blu]

Quite, FW. Where do they get the pepole who cintribute to these polls?

[Marina]

I think they seek out respondents who will suit their agenda blu - YouGov presumably has a profile for all active worshippers and they took it from there
I find aspects of sharia law very worrying, as per some of the examples on here, but refuse to believe that most British Muslims want to live under it.
Could not agree more that there are plenty of non-Muslim calls on here sometimes for certain criminal behaviours to be punished with torture and the death sentence...

[snowleopard]

Well, there are some Muslims who definitely do - there was a huge argument on here once in which Saadia told me that ideally I should be "tried and punished" for not being a Muslim. I don't know how young she is though and it seems she's not male. Saadia, your input needed here please!

[saadia]

oh Lord here we go again. I always try to avoid these threads but someone always drags out my name so I feel compelled to respond.

I can't believe I have ever in my life said that anyone should be tried and punished for not being Muslim.

What I have said is that if there is a country where the overwhelming majority of people are Muslim and they democratically vote to introduce Islamic Law then who has the right to complain? Surely Muslims are as entitled as anyone else to choose how they are governed.

I have never said that Sharia Law should be introduced in the UK.

Having said that I do believe in the death penalty for murderers and for harsher punishments for thieves and violent offenders.

[snowleopard]

Hi Saadia, sorry to upset you. You did say that to me on MN, and I only raised your name because I genuinely thought you'd have something to say here. However, I admit that I don't remember you saying per se that you would want Sharia Law in the UK, sop I'm sorry I conflated the two.

You did click on the thread though...

[saadia]

It's OK I'm not upset. I think I said that blasphemies against the Prophet (pbuh) should be tried and punished. Anyway, no point in re-hashing all that.

Yes I did click because I have a vested interest in seeing what the prevailing view towards Muslims is on MN.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Saadia I think from past threads it should be more than obvious what the prevailing mn opnion of muslims is....

Snowleopard, you may be interested to learn, that ermmm actually there is no trial or punishment for not being muslim.

According to Islam there is no compulsion in religion. And despite what others (who have no idea about islam bar what they read in the papers) say, this verse was revealed, when islam was in a position of strength and the Prophet had gone to Madina where the Madinians had converted to Islam. During this time some people in their zeal wished to force their offspring to convert too, they were told to leave them be and to allow them to practice their religion as we practice ours.

[PeachyClair]

That's true Fuzzi, although these people {Dimi si the tem) were made to pay such taxes that many chose to convert rather than pay- so you could say abstract pressure was applied? Also, Apostasy is a huge crime under Shari'sa law- you only need to look at Salman Rushdie, that was the main accusation against him. So whilst Muhammud din't want compulsion in religioon, it wasn't a free for all either.

[OrmIrian]

Doesn't the unhealthy image of Sharia law come from the way in which that law is interpreted and enforced in certain states, rather than the law itself. If a state is hostile to women they can find reasons to discriminate.

[snowleopard]

Thanks Saadia and Fuzzywuzzy. I totally accept that I don't know all there is to know about Islam and I do take on board what you say.

Just as with Christianity, and other religions, there are all kinds of barbarities committed in the name of Islam. it is good to know that real Islam does not prescribe things such as forced conversion, but there are Muslims who do believe in it, and those who blow people up while shouting God is Great, so you can understand that non-Muslims get mixed messages. I completely agree there should be more education about the realities of Islam.

Saadia, it may be that it was blasphemy for which I should have been tried and punished, but then what counts as blasphemy? I may have blasphemed through some statement to do with my atheism, which may be why it seemed to me that not believing/not being Muslim was the crime involved. As I say, I don't know all the technicalities but maybe someone else can remember that thread (I recall there were others who got more heated than I did, in my defence).