Interested in getting Opinions on the performance of Corbyn and Smith in tonight's debate.

[Rainbunny]

I've been reading the Guardian live article but the comments section is basically overrun by extreme Corbyn supporters making insulting comments so I can't get any objective sense of how people think Corbyn and Smith are performing.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

Does Smith have any supporters? His rally in Liverpool at the weekend consisted of an Ice-Cream van. Corbyn was mobbed in Liverpool 2 days later.

[TwoLeftSocks]

I'm curious to know how it'll go as I've no idea how I'll vote but won't get to watch it as I'm at my parents and it's just not worth the grief to even vaguely bring up politics.

[Rainbunny]

I was personally somewhat pleasantly surprised by Smith, he came across to me as having a better idea of how to execute his policies while Corbyn (and their policy ideas were very similar except on Brexit) just seemed vague as always. I won't lie, I do find Corbyn exasperating to watch after a year of watching him in PMQs. He just reminds of a cross geography teacher who's fed up with all the bratty kids in his class.

I do think it's interesting how Smith wants a second referendum and Corbyn wants to honour the leave result. Will this difference sway any voters over to Smith I wonder? I'd always assumed that many of Corbyn's supporters would naturally be pro-EU.

[claig]

I thought Corbyn won it easily. Smith was full of soundbites and all he could really say was that Labour is not winning and needs to be in government.

The video of the debate is on the Politics thread.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

I can't get my head around all this Labour need to unite business. It seems it's very united apart from the PLP. And it's not united behind Smith.

[claig]

'And it's not united behind Smith.'

Absolutely, Giddy. After Corbyn soundly and deservedly thrashes the 172, maybe then Labour will unite (apart from the sore losers) and it can back Corbyn as the majority of Labour's members do.

[claig]

Lots of sly digs by Soundbite Smith to Corbyn about "surely you want to do more than just protest at the Tories" - a line probably fed to him by a Blairite spinner held in high regard by the 172.

[CorkieD]

It's painfully obvious that Corbyn is only interested in rhetoric. He has no interest whatsover in governing.

We can now look forward to two decades of Tory government thanks to Jeremy Corbyn and his dimwitted supporters.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Agree Corkie

Corbyn will win, labour shall loose the next election. Corbyn won't enter televised debates as he has no answers to his proposals but shall turn up a well organised rally where a few hundred will cheer and hang in his every word

[Gribbie]

What was this if not a televised debate?

[Ailicece]

Oh claig, you don't give up, do you. Yes, Corbyn will almost certainly win and that will be the end of Labour. As CorkieD said, we can look forward to at least 2 decades of Tory government without any checks whatsoever (come back Nick Clegg, the one honourable politician of the last decade or so - yes he had to pick his battles but at least he kept the worst of the Tories in check, i.e. Theresa May)!

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I was meaning he won't enter televised debates coming up to a general election

He wouldn't share a platform with Cameron during the referendum campaign can't remember the excuse now but it was pathetic

[claig]

'He wouldn't share a platform with Cameron during the referendum campaign can't remember the excuse now but it was pathetic'

Wasn't that because Corbyn didn't want Labour to become associated with the Establishment in voters' minds as they did in Scotland in the Independence Referendum where they were seen as being too close to the Tories and the Establishment?

'Yes, Corbyn will almost certainly win and that will be the end of Labour. '

Labour hasn'tgota chance of winning with Owen Smith and the same old faces because they don't really offer anything substantially different to the Tories and are seen as Tory-lite.

Under Corbyn, if he gets it right, there is a chance that Labour will be different - nationalise rail, some banks, invest massively in housing, scrap tuition fees, much better free care for the elderly without them needing to sell their homes to pay for it, better education, free lifelong learning, investment to create public sector jobs, better NHS, soak the rich and the banks and the hedge funds to pay for it etc etc With all of that, and not penalising and restricting the middle class, Labour could win a landslide as the public mood changes and is fed up with the status quo. It depends if Corbyn has the courage to do it and if he can control his own MPs who will oppose him and argue for Establishment policies instead.

[claig]

Newsnight report on now saying that the NHS is in crisis and has to save £22 billion per year. One A&E may have to shut at night.

People are going to get fed up of this if it keeps going on. Corbyn might say he will solve it.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Oh yes the man of principle I forgot rubbing shoulders with the establishment is an absolute no no

Happy to be paid a very nice fee for a few hours work by Iranian state television though

And where does he get all this money to do what he is proposing an increase in tax for a few yeah that will make all the difference

[claig]

'And where does he get all this money to do what he is proposing an increase in tax for a few yeah that will make all the difference'

Probably an increase in corporation tax and a tax on financial market transactions etc

[CorkieD]

And all what criag describes will happen in Cloud Cuckoo land!

[claig]

CorkieD, it depends how much courage Corbyn has got. Up to now he has been a bit weak on his Establishment MPs who have been undermining him, so he may not have the courage to do radical things.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

And that will fix all of the above

So he won't have to work with big business to increase investment he will just tax them all at a higher rate

Has he learnt his economics from playing monopoly

[JustAnotherPoster00]

Usual misinformation about Corbyn and his economics go and read some John Maynard Keynes and come back, when Bevan founded the NHS the national debt was at 250% of GDP after the second world war, after the mass building of council houses and mass investment into the infrastructure of the country that was brought down to 43% of GDP even with the founding of the NHS. He wants a national investment bank for the people, how is that a bad thing? It was done once already and the only people that benefitted from that was the banks, bankers and shareholders, you feeling any of that gain?

[claig]

'So he won't have to work with big business to increase investment he will just tax them all at a higher rate'

Lots of big companies are sitting on huge piles of cash which they are not investing. He could tax them if they don't invest it productively and create jobs

"UK companies sit on giant piles of cash"

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/379d917a-25c9-11e3-8ef6-00144feab7de.html#axzz4GyCf57Rz

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

you can't compare the NHS of even 20 years ago to today the increased costs simply can not be met without everyone paying more towards it

Yes lots of companies are but they will want incentive for investing just raising taxes isn't one

[CorkieD]

Under Corbyn, the UK would effectively become the New Cuba.

Labour could certainly tax business more and this is no bad thing. The problem with Corbyn is that there would be a complete economic collapse. Corbyn would tax corporations to such an extent that most businesses would simply move abroad taking their piles of cash and jobs with them. A significant tax on financial market transactions would mean financial transactions are no longer conducted within the UK. It won't just be future investment that is threatened but existing jobs would disappear overnight.

But all this is pie in the sky anyway as Labour's chances of being elected under Corbyn are practically zero.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I would support changes in the tax system and closing loopholes but taxing people and companies at a very high level doesn't work companies will leave and people will find ways to hide money

And of course Corbyn will never be PM even as a labour supporter I am thankful for that. His legacy will be destroying the Labour Party and he is doing a fine job of it so far

[CorkieD]

I really don't think any of the Corbyn supporters are interested in Labour being in government.

Protest and rhetoric are more important. A Tory government suits them just fine as it gives them something to rail about.