A 'democratic' referendum

[SnowBells]

I hear Brexiters say time and time again that Remainers can't deal with the democratic vote of the referendum. But do you really think a referendum is a democratic tool?! Especially after the propaganda and lies Britain was subjected to?

Read THIS Wikipedia page and tell me... would you just have sat by then? The famous guy on that page used referendums to get into power and stay in power by feeding propaganda to people. Hence, it was banned there after after WW2.

[PurpleDaisies]

You're not seriously comparing a referendum that happened on nazi Germany to what we've just voted in? Seriously?

I was passionately in the remain camp. You're doing is no favours at all.

[SnowBells]

PurpleDaisies

What I am saying is that a lot of people just tell us to shut up... because the referendum was a democratic vote after all. I am just pointing out that the 'democratic vote' after massive propaganda can actually lead to bad things, too.

Not the first person to point this out, by the way. Just the first one on Mumsnet.

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

That would be accurate if only one side had published propaganda and the other had been silenced. Both sides spoke out.

[SnowBells]

P.S.: And one of the articles I read about why referendums shouldn't really be used was from years and years ago. Well before this referendum was even on the horizon. I'm very anti-referendum.

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

Seriously if you think this is anything like nazi Germany then do some proper research and take your remain n linkers off first.

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

*blinkers

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

Yep.

[claig]

'Especially after the propaganda and lies Britain was subjected to?'

Is this a reference to the "Punishment Budget" that will never be enacted?

There are lies in election campaigns, manifesto commitments that are never acted upon, Cmeron's promise to get immigration down to the tens of thousands "no ifs, no buts". That is part of politics, and Remain turned Project Fear into an art form as the threats and scares of the Chancellor and the Prime Munster grew more preposterous than one of Baron Von Munchausen's tall tales, till in the end the denizens of the Dog and Duck said pull the other one it's got bells on.

I think referendums are a wonderful thing because they allow the people to have a voice and instruct their political class, which is precisely why the political class are so against them.

[BurnTheBlackSuit]

I think I've worked out the divide.

Remain voters are against democracy (and therefore the EU is fine to them)

Leave voters are all for democracy (and therefore wanted to leave the EU)

It has all become very very clear.

[PurpleDaisies]

Remain voters are against democracy (and therefore the EU is fine to them)
Don't lump us all in together. While I'm disappointed with the result that's how the country voted so I'm going to make the best of it.

[MorrisZapp]

What a load of pish. You can't call it anti democratic after the fact.

Parallels with nazi Germany are laughable, but if you're going there then the pre war Germans did not have smart phones and google.

I'm tired of the 'swallowing lies' approach, whoever peddles it. We all have the same search engine.

[ArgyMargy]

It's not really democracy is it - only around 1/3 of over-18's voted to leave.

[claig]

'It's not really democracy is it - only around 1/3 of over-18's voted to leave.'

Didn't Cameron and the team spend public money trying to get the young vote out? There was nothing stopping them participating in the democratic referendum.

[claig]

Sorry, Argy, I thought you were referring to the 36% turnout among 18-24 year olds.

[ArgyMargy]

No claig, just that 51% of a 72% turnout is around 36%, so just over a third really.

[Fairenuff]

If leaving was going to be so crushingly devastating to the uk, why did the government allow a referendum in the first place?

[SnowBells]

OrangeandLemons

Talking about it, I did grow up in Germany. History lessons consisted of years of "All the bad things the Nazis did". Even after that, history lessons were skewed towards the bad things that have happened in this world. It was the German governments agenda to ensure nationalism remains subdued because of the past, you know.

I have to say... history lessons in the UK are rather different. It focuses on the great United Kingdom.

The last few days sent alarm bells ringing inside me. People I know have been verbally abused on the street since they don't look British or have accents. Yes, I know that not all 52% are racists. But as they now say in social media... the racists think that 52% agree with them.

I am alarmed how different the UK feels after this referendum. Alarmed.

[SnowBells]

fairenuff

This was basically an internal squabble in the Tory Party. Cameron felt he had to to appease the backbenchers. But he himself never wanted to leave the UK.

I don't think the public was even that aware of the EU until politicians started sprouting lies about it!

That is why we are in this mess.

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

Talking about it, I did grow up in Germany. History lessons consisted of years of "All the bad things the Nazis did". Even after that, history lessons were skewed towards the bad things that have happened in this world. It was the German governments agenda to ensure nationalism remains subdued because of the past, you know

I am fully aware of German history thank you.

[SnowBells]

OrangeandLemons

Good.

I was just trying to tell you that because of HOW it is taught in Germany (be suspicious of anything with nationalist tendencies), I may be a little more worried about the UK of the last few days than you.

[emilybohemia]

I agree op. Undemocratic in many ways.

Ignore the faux consternation and outrage.

[A4Document]

The electorate voted in the Tories last year, on the promise of a referendum regarding Britain's membership of the EU. The leave side therefore have every right to expect that this wasn't just a sham referendum.

[callherwillow]

Actually, a lot of UK history curriculum also focuses on the bad things the nazis did :)

[SnowBells]

callherwillow

Maybe it should focus on the horrible things the UK did to create the Commonwealth. Drum it into the kids for at least four years that their ancestors killed people and exploited them. Tell them there's blood on their hands, and they have to repent for it forever.