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We will not let people who spread poison and hate....

(64 Posts)
ProfessorPreciseaBug Fri 17-Jun-16 22:28:21

I don't know why, but there is something that quite disturbs me about that expession. It makes me feel uneasy and I don't quite know what it means.

lougle Fri 17-Jun-16 22:32:10

I think it perfectly expresses meaning. People who encourage hate for certain people groups simply because they belong to that group.

I think this is a bit insensitive, tbh. I thought it was the most dignified statement imaginable from someone who could, himself, have been consumed with hatred at that moment. Instead, he chose to say what his wife would say.

flowers Jo Cox flowers

NoMudNoLotus Sat 18-Jun-16 00:39:33

This is not respectful at all - your thread.

GiddyOnZackHunt Sat 18-Jun-16 00:46:41

Or basically can we just be nice.
How many times do parents say "play nicely"?
Do you like poison & hate? I don't. I don't like the vilification of the poor, the disabled, the old, the refugee, the incomer, the mentally ill, the other,.
Let's be nice

BeakyMinder Sat 18-Jun-16 01:06:33

Right, so you want to let people spread poison and hate? Because that's 'democracy' maybe?

No. Sorry, just no. Line in the sand right here. Hate speech and inciting violence are crimes. It's not OK. We've all seen the history documentaries, we know where it leads.

EttaJ Sat 18-Jun-16 01:58:57

Seriously OP?! What part of it are you struggling with?

ProfessorPreciseaBug Sat 18-Jun-16 07:02:03

I worry it could be a blanket to stop any and all debate. For instance is it spreading poison and hate to criticise Israeli settlement policy? Is it spreading poison and hate to be upset at the sexual assults in Cologne? Or to be concerned at how people from a place where women are actually treated as second class can integrate with our culture of womens rights?

I consider these are important questions. Yet they can easily be shouted down under a slogan of poison and hate.

BeakyMinder Sat 18-Jun-16 08:27:32

I take your point but you're talking about debates which are had within liberal circles, amongst people who basically share similar values.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Out in the mainstream there is some seriously nasty thinking becoming acceptable. You should be far more concerned with what people like Katie Hopkins and Nigel Farage are saying. They are recycling nazi propaganda FFS!

We liberals need to get our heads out of arses, stop fighting each other, and look at what's happening to our country before it's too late.

ProfessorPreciseaBug Sat 18-Jun-16 09:16:50

Well blow me down with a feather...

I have never been called a liberal before.. but thank you for the compliment.

TheNewStatesman Sat 18-Jun-16 09:26:40

"Let's be nice"

This is politics, not a vicarage tea party.

I think some of Corbyn's little friends aren't "nice" people. I still don't think that Corbyn should have his right to free speech taken away.

MorrisZapp Sat 18-Jun-16 09:33:29

Hmmmm. I sort of agree. I'm a bit frustrated to see Katie Hopkins mentioned endlessly on here, she is a highly paid controversialist whose views are a mixture of made up and irrelevant. Farage won how many seats in the last election?

The country as a whole rejects racism and extremism of either stripe.

My FB feed is very left wing/ pro Scottish independence and it's absolutely standard on there to refer to mainstream, elected politicians as hateful, murderous etc.

I'm nervous that one side is allowed to hate because they are right, while the other side just proves itself wrong.

MorrisZapp Sat 18-Jun-16 09:47:29

The BNP (remember them?) also got vast media coverage which completely failed to turn into votes. Even in the sanctity of a polling booth, Britain doesn't vote racist. Maybe the media should stop pearl clutching and stop endlessly flagging up minority views.

BeakyMinder Sat 18-Jun-16 10:16:35

Farage has not been elected MP, yet he's arguably the most influential man in Britain right now. We wouldn't be having a referendum at all if it wasn't for him. And it's seemingly ok for him to campaign using Nazi propaganda. This is thought acceptable nowadays. www.newstatesman.com/2016/06/nigel-farage-s-anti-eu-poster-depicting-migrants-resembles-nazi-propaganda

Seeing as the country is about to dismiss the views of 76% of our MPs (thats the pro-Remain MPs, all of whom were elected by us), maybe we as a country don't think our MPs or elected government is important any more.

Dangerous.

chilledwarmth Sat 18-Jun-16 14:52:56

It sounds like censorship to me. The idea of what is poison and what is hate, and what is not, changes a lot over the years. It's unwise to try and block or shut down debate just because someone has what we consider a nasty belief. Why not listen to them, hear out their argument? You might end up agreeing with them and find it's not so hateful after all. Even if you don't, you can still debate it without trying to deny a discussion on it.

BeakyMinder Sat 18-Jun-16 14:54:15

So we should repeal the laws we have now on incitement to violence and hate speech? You'd get rid of those?

chilledwarmth Sat 18-Jun-16 15:06:44

I don't think people should be allowed to encourage you to go out and attack people if that's what you mean by incitement. But that has to be very narrowly defined, you can't say that if someone expresses a nasty opinion, then others go and commit violence because of it, that the person incited it. Unless they specifically say that others should commit violence for whatever their cause is, it shouldn't count. Hate speech is not something that I think should ever be made illegal because that's like trying to legislate against opinions. So what if someone expresses a lot of hate? You aren't forced to listen to it, and you can always challenge them if you want to. If you don't want your own opinions to be legislated against, stop trying to legislate other people's, even if they are hateful.

We don't have the same laws as you so it's not a matter of repealing. The First Amendment largely protects you in saying whatever you want to say.

supersoftcuddlytoys Sat 18-Jun-16 16:12:51

Incitement to violence is illegal and rightly so. I know it's all about interpretation for there, but common sense will, I believe, prevail. As for the rest? All views should be given the full light of day IMO.

ProfessorPreciseaBug Sat 18-Jun-16 22:34:50

New Statesman,
I am not saying Corbyn should not be able to express an opinion... Far from it.

I am trying to question what he means when he uses expressions like poison and hate. This do seem to be very emotive and charged language. I also wonder whether such emotional language is helpful at a time like this.

ProfessorPreciseaBug Sat 18-Jun-16 22:41:56

Supersoft,
In part I agree, everyone does need to be heard so that the nasty extreem types can be exposed by the simply asking basic yet awkward questions...

However, I also recognise there are some people who can rouse a mob into violence by their oratory. And we all remember one or two very good speakers in that mould. Once the mob is let loose the damage is already done, so how to balance? I really do not know the answer.

missmoon Sat 18-Jun-16 23:02:33

He is not saying that we should ban speech that promotes "poison and hate", but rather that we as a society should take a stance that hateful speech that generates division is morally wrong. Surely nothing to object to there?

ProfessorPreciseaBug Sun 19-Jun-16 03:51:16

If that is how to interpret it, I am happy to agree. As long as we are clear that is what is meant. I hope people can understand why the part that makes me feel uncomfortable is the "we will not let".... That can easily be interpreted as we will ban expression of ideas we disagree with because they spread poison.

I would have been more comfortable if he had said "we will counter and expose those who ...." Time will tell how the country will interpret his ideas.

Egosumquisum Sun 19-Jun-16 07:59:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GhostofFrankGrimes Sun 19-Jun-16 10:02:22

I agree with Corbyn and the more information that is coming to light after this weeks horrible events - he is being proven correct.

BeakyMinder Sun 19-Jun-16 12:16:40

"We will not let" does not mean "ban".

It's about the decent, silent majority standing up and saying publicly that we will not tolerate hate speech.

This has to happen because hate speech is becoming normal on social media; it's like the way kids can now access hard core porn. No one ever wanted it to happen, but it just did.

Too many decent people have shied away from challenging hate speech because we don't want to see it. We protect ourselves from the vileness of it all by saying 'don't read the comments' or 'they're just nutters, ignore them'. We think it's none of our business.

But as last week's events proved, challenging hate speech is all of our business. Otherwise, the weak, the isolated and the ignorant think that hate speech is normal and acceptable and they act on it.

Time for us all to grow a pair and call it out when we see it. Starting now.

Reapwhatyousow Sun 19-Jun-16 16:25:11

Is this all about the pathetic poor man who has been arrested on suspicion of murder? We prayed for Jo Cox and her family today and for this unlovely man and his family who have in all likelihood been let down by an inadequate mental health system. It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

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