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Women's safety in Europe after Cologne

(1000 Posts)
DavidTCDaviesMP Mon 08-Feb-16 09:38:06

I have been invited onto Mumsnet to discuss the situation for women in Europe following the attacks in Cologne, and the challenge we face in Europe in trying to help millions of mainly young men, who are arriving in Europe from cultures which treat women very differently. I believe this is an issue which needs open discussion by political leaders yet is swept under the carpet. David Davies MP

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark Mon 08-Feb-16 09:39:49


Big place, Europe.

Traged Mon 08-Feb-16 09:42:47

Thank you.

Traged Mon 08-Feb-16 09:47:47

I have posted on the other thread that you have started this one

LumelaMme Mon 08-Feb-16 09:48:03

Thank you David!

Am I right that this is the thread for the web chat with you that will be live between 1pm and 2pm?

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Mon 08-Feb-16 09:48:59

Place marking. Will come back later.

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark Mon 08-Feb-16 09:49:12

I reported this one so comments can go in the right place.

DavidTCDaviesMP Mon 08-Feb-16 09:56:20

Yes live between 1 and 2

BungoWomble Mon 08-Feb-16 09:56:52

I suppose the big question is how much should we be helping these men at all. Before we even get on to culture clashes.

There are the refugees from war-torn Syria, which is one thing. And then there are the economic migrants who are just here to try their luck. I'm not unsympathetic to that principle, but when you are talking about the numbers we are seeing... can we agree to begin with that it is hopeless to suggest that Britain and Europe can house and feed the entire world?

Next, that we need to get some hard figures on just how many more we can feed - if any: I think Britain is already overpopulated, and our public services and infrastructure have been very deliberately run down for the last 30-odd years. We could try and sound the Netherlands out on this, they are more densely populated than we are.

LumelaMme Mon 08-Feb-16 10:06:38

England (excluding the rest of the UK) has I think the same pop density as the Netherlands...

BungoWomble Mon 08-Feb-16 10:10:50

I thought it was slightly less. But... same principle. Immigration as a whole is a topic that politicians have been refusing to face for a long time. The concerns of our own poorer folk who can barely afford to live here themselves but have nowhere to go are entirely legitimate.

VertigoNun Mon 08-Feb-16 10:18:17

Why are existing laws in the UK not upheld? If they were upheld then there would be more trust that there would be adequate consequences If a mass attack as in Cologne were to occur.

carlajean Mon 08-Feb-16 11:14:51

I would first like to thank you, Mr Davies, for being the only MP to have spoken on this. For me, the problem is that there is still no adequate discussion on the subject. The left wing are effectively closing down all debate, but we need someone to accept that uncontrolled immigration would destabilise the UK, but can give some solutions.

BungoWomble Mon 08-Feb-16 11:20:11

Hear hear Carla <coming over all Commons-like>

AnnaForbes Mon 08-Feb-16 11:30:13

Thank you so much for being honest about these new challenges. Most people will not talk about it, in fact I have recently fallen out with two friends, both ardent feminists, who refuse to even consider our daughters will most likely face increased risks to their safely and curtailment of their liberties given mass immigration.

I'm working but will be back here at 1pm to join in.

grimbletart Mon 08-Feb-16 11:37:53

For info: I reported on another thread earlier: I wrote to my MP about our concerns and he sent me a letter (22 Jan) saying he has written to the Home Secretary asking her to review our concerns at the earliest opportunity and he will forward a copy of any response.

Kummerspeck Mon 08-Feb-16 12:00:56

I would just like to add my thanks to you for listening and speaking out. I am concerned about the future for women with regard to the changes mass migration could bring and think we need to discuss this but, increasingly find myself caught between the right wing "send 'em all home" brigade and the left wing who do not want this discussed and use accusations of racism/xenophobia as a way to close down discussion.

I am surprised at how few people have signed the petition started on here and found it interesting that the only friends of mine who refused to sign it were left wing PC types who dismissed it on the grounds that women are not treated 100% equally here anyway, regardless of the fact that we could be about to take a very large step backwards.
I agree with Vertigo that existing legislation needs to be applied better in the UK but would also like to see some thought given to how to deal with large numbers of people from cultures that do not value women (not just men, witness the harassment of the rape victim and her family in Manchester recently by groups of up to 50 men and women who regard the victim as worthless) and the potential risk of taharrush following the events in Cologne.

Do you have any suggestions for how we can help push this discussion forward?

AMouseLivedinaWindMill Mon 08-Feb-16 12:18:13

Checking in to say thank you for your speech on this, thank you for not allowing these disgusting sex attacks to be minimised.

I want to know how many of these young men, are from Syria and how many have taken advantage of Merkel's open door declaration and come from places like Morocco.

Can the police forces of Europe keep a tab on all these young men, what can be done? Is handing out leaflets re - not touching women, really enough, when many men will come from vastly different cultures where women are treated very differently?

Inkanta Mon 08-Feb-16 12:22:15

Hello David.

Mary Honeyball, a member of the EU parliament, implied that anyone wishing to explore the facts around migrants committing attacks in Cologne, in relation to the repercussions on women, will be dismissed as 'racist'.

Is that the general consensus amongst other members?

januarybrown1998 Mon 08-Feb-16 13:01:11

Hi David, Inkata, to be a complete pedant, she actually stated "It is racist and against this committee" (FEMM) ask about measures taken to protect women in the wake of Cologne.

I know very well what life is like as a women in an unchecked mysogynistic culture and I do not ever wish to be so silenced and invisible again. Surely dismissing those who are concerned by incidences such as these, those in Vienna, Sweden, Finland and elsewhere in Germany, is sending a very dangerous message about the treatment of women and children in the EU.

My question to David is:
Given the lily-livered response and knee-jerk cry of 'racist' from those who are afraid to have this debate, what do you suggest that we, the ordinary, non-racist, non-xenophobe, worried-for-women's-safety mothers, daughters and concerned citizens actually DO?

BrittEkland Mon 08-Feb-16 13:02:08

*Good afternoon, David.

Can you tell us, please, if the decision to suppress info in early January about the attacks was a co-decision that Germany took with other EU countries, such as the UK? And also the ongoing disinclination not to prosecute rapists?*

DavidTCDaviesMP Mon 08-Feb-16 13:02:42

I am at my computer now. First time I have done this so please bear with me!

LumelaMme Mon 08-Feb-16 13:03:30

It's all good!

DavidTCDaviesMP Mon 08-Feb-16 13:04:01

Answer to that questions is: I don't know, I don't think it was a coordinated cover up but I think the police in various European countries are trying to ensure that there is no public backlash against the huge migration that is taking place

januarybrown1998 Mon 08-Feb-16 13:04:39

We are all super-patient and ridiculously kind. Take your time, welcome and have a and brew cake or even wine!

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