Advanced search

Sex Attacks in Cologne and other European Cities Part VII

(1000 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

januarybrown1998 Mon 18-Jan-16 22:29:16

part 6

part 5

part 4

part 3

part 2

part 1

The events of NYE were shocking enough; the subsequent minimising and under-reporting were an affront to women's rights to equality across Europe.

It's a testament to the tenacity and commitment of this community that we are at thread VII; do join the discussion and feel free to share the links and letters to anyone you think may wish to be part of this important debate.

We are currently awaiting the approval of a petition to parliament.

Shortly we will post links for those who want to take a proactive part in safeguarding the rights of all UK women to live in freedom from the fear of mass sexual assault as we sadly saw in NYE and reports of which are finally seeing daylight across Europe.

ThePetition Mon 18-Jan-16 22:31:24


glenthebattleostrich Mon 18-Jan-16 22:32:32

Thanks January.

If anyone has suggestions on who to contact please pm me or post on here. I'll be collating info and contact details on a spreadsheet we can hopefully share over the next couple of days.

MariscallRoad Mon 18-Jan-16 23:13:12

januarybrown1998 Thanks for starting extension VII.

RomComPhooey Mon 18-Jan-16 23:18:49


TheNewStatesman Mon 18-Jan-16 23:30:59

"Grace, I can't see the relevance of Muslim women's language aquisition to men raping and attacking women in Cologne."

I think it is relevant. The concerns that some of us have expressed regarding very large-scale, very fast migration from countries with appalling treatment of women, have generally been deflected with responses of "Yes, but people will integrate, their children will adopt modern liberal values, and the second generation will have similar attitudes towards women (gay people, Jews, etc.) to all the other people living in this country."

This kind of integration is a LOT less likely to take place if mothers are not able to speak English.

Look at the situation in places like Bradford; large numbers of wives, brought in from Pakistan, who are unable to speak English and hang out almost exclusively within their own diaspora. Do you think this assists integration? Do you really not think that the extremely troubling attitudes towards women, gay people and Jews among many young men in places like Bradford have got nothing to do with this?

As it happens, I think DC's new ideas are a clumsy tool that could lead to families beiing split up, and I would much rather see the initial requirements for getting spouse residency status being made tougher (in terms of language skills, minimum education requirements, and even things like a minimum age floor---nobody under age 23, say).

But the problem DC is trying (somewhat ineffectually) to tackle is a real one.

Societies which want to have large scale immigration while maintaining a cohestive social structure with a high level of trust, have to be very, very serious about integration--bossy, even.

It's unusual for me to defend Singapore, but one reason why Singapore is able to have high levels of immigration while remaining a very stable society is because Singapore pushes integration really strongly; there are even quotas for schools which dictate that the % of kids from any given group cannot be over a certain level, for example. If we WANT to have tons of immigration, we may have to think about similar ideas.

VertigoNun Mon 18-Jan-16 23:39:19

I was half watching Newsnight earlier and I am sure the head of ofsted said he will support School demands that head coverings are removed.

celeste83 Mon 18-Jan-16 23:46:14

I wasn't ware of other EU cities where similar sex attacks have taken place shock

HelpTheAnimalsFirst Tue 19-Jan-16 00:55:01

Oh dear, I must have gone out like a light on the sofa. It's nearly 1 am so I have been zonked out for 4 hours, during which time lovely January has continued the thread to No. 7. Thank you so much.

GourmetSoup Tue 19-Jan-16 01:06:01

About the comparisons with Oktoberfest, are the backgrounds of those men known? For example, the grooming gangs across the UK were 2nd and 3rd generation and so would be classified as British.

Many of the Cologne attackers could escape prosecution and gain asylum. If they go to the next Oktoberfest and sexually assault women, will the crimes be recorded as having been committed by Germans?

TheNewStatesman Tue 19-Jan-16 02:59:59

As one of the commenters says, Sweden is rapidly becoming an international embarrassment.

fourmummy Tue 19-Jan-16 05:39:48

I am so pleased that these discussions are continuing. I am 'flat-out' at work so can't gather my thoughts to write here, but am reading and following. I am sure many are in the same boat. Integration is absolutely key to a cohesive society. Keep going everyone!

Enjoy4Laps Tue 19-Jan-16 07:55:02

Thank you for Thread VII January! I have name changed but posted on the other threads. I am so pleased that the petition has been submitted and hope today will be the day we get to sign and share.

I agree with Statesman that language is essential to integration. Women who don't speak English are unable to find employment and mothers who don't speak our language are not able to engage in their children's schooling or manage their children's health when talking to health care professionals unless there is a translator, which cannot always be provided.

I do know that many doctor's surgeries access a telephone translation service (language line?) which I suppose is good in the short term but also keeps women who don't speak English in a state of dependancy and ignorance.

I was astonished at the timing of DC's proposals but think it's great he is tackling the issue, I hope that the plans are well thought out and feasible doubtful. It's almost like he was waiting for the public mood to change, which it seems to have judging by these threads and the thousands of reader comments on The Guardian and other news sites.

In the meantime even the Green party in Germany have acknowledged now better late than never that it is important to talk about the culture of the perpetrators.

Come on petition!

2016IsANewYearforMe Tue 19-Jan-16 07:59:28

I was in Singapore for a month back in the early 90s. As a young woman, I never felt so free in my life. The security that I had to move around without fear anywhere at any time was new to me. Of course, this was only possible because there were a lot of rules, very strictly enforced. It was probably less free for men, who had to be careful not to get into compromising situations. I remember male colleagues recounting in horror the story of a cab driver who reached across a woman to her open her door handled, accidentally grazed her breasts with the back of his forearm and served time in prison.

It's got me thinking. Women have more freedom when the world is more stable, more secure, more ordered in many ways because we are more vulnerable. This inevitably clips men's wings a bit.

Enjoy4Laps Tue 19-Jan-16 08:15:17

That's interesting 2016, I have never been to Singapore. Do you think it's still like you remember it?

Moreshabbythanchic Tue 19-Jan-16 08:28:13

Morning everyone and thank you January for the new thread. Lets hope this is the one that finally gets our petition up and running.

2016IsANewYearforMe Tue 19-Jan-16 08:32:28

I have no idea Enjoy. TheNewStatesman's comments about Singapore jogged my memory and got me thinking. Because I am a woman, I need a certain level of security to be free. Creating that security means self restraint and/or the strict enforcement of rules and norms which curtails men who are less vulnerable to some extent. I think there is a tension there.

MariscallRoad Tue 19-Jan-16 08:33:44

Enjoy4Laps I agree, education of the women would improve the financial position of the whole family but also women would have more information and choices reading what happens around them.

2016IsANewYearforMe Tue 19-Jan-16 08:35:35

I saw this doing the rounds on Facebook. It's a year old. What do you think? I found it sweet, but I can imagine some bristling over the fact that women need men to protect them. Ultimately, I suppose our campaign concedes the same thing. We need men to be restrained, we need the police to act on our behalf. We cannot cope in a wild west situation. Basically: we do not want to live in a Hobbesian nightmare, where life is nasty, brutish and short.

ExitPursuedByABear Tue 19-Jan-16 08:36:25

Signing in.

I got a very mealy mouthed letter from my mp in response to my email.

unlucky83 Tue 19-Jan-16 08:55:50

Found it !! Thought it was going to be in OTBT? Anyway...still hanging in for the petition -guess after the weekend they have a lot to get through?

januarybrown1998 Tue 19-Jan-16 09:02:13

Exit, I think we should name and shame here those MPs who aren't taking the issue seriously.

Interesting quote from the FT (we recently discussed editorial bias and this paper was mentioned as more independent than most)

*High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email to buy additional rights.

Necla Kelek, a sociologist and writer of Muslim-origin, condemns this “false tolerance”. She blames it for allowing some Muslim immigrants, often young single men coming to Germany without family support, to develop radical Islamic views of society “where men have dominance over women”. Even before Cologne, Ms Merkel emphasised the importance of immigrants respecting the German constitution and human rights laws

Full article here

januarybrown1998 Tue 19-Jan-16 09:02:56

unlucky shall I ask to move it?

BungoWomble Tue 19-Jan-16 09:29:54

2016IsANewYear shock shock shock Don't start with that women always need men in the background nonsense!

We need police, we need law enforcement, yes. No reason why they can't be female. I often think our law enforcement, hell, our whole politics, would be better if it was predominantly run by women. As for our vulnerabilities, yes maybe as a class women are slightly more vulnerable than men - but mostly it's because they are trained to be so from birth while men are all-too-frequently deliberately trained to be toxic bastards. We're tougher in lots of ways, we are not helpless.

I keep saying this, the Cologne and similar attacks were extraordinary because of the numbers. With a small army on the streets intent on doing harm, they could have gone for anyone. It happened to be women, but men would have had as little chance of defending themselves if it had been them targeted too. Men can get raped too, and will get hurt in fights of 1 against 12 or 15, they were equally helpless to help their womenfolk at Cologne or so I heard.

Don't let it fool you into putting our shackles back on!!

BungoWomble Tue 19-Jan-16 09:32:44

The most vulnerable parts of the human anatomy are those ridiculous sticky out bits that have to be stored outside of the body... ask any male wink

This thread is not accepting new messages.