saudi beheadings

[southeastastra]

this is really playing on my mind. how can this be acceptable and allowed are we so barbaric? it's no wonder isis and the like think what they do is acceptable when sharia law passes this sort of crap for really minor offences.

am also worried about that kid that took part in the protests who was sentenced to death, haven't heard anything about him since and can't find info on web.

[fourmummy]

I know that this is only a tweet, I haven't yet checked the veracity of contents, concerns American politics (although Britain's role in helping SA secure the UN human rights chair still plays on my mind) and I'm not a fan of Trump 'the man', but take a look at this: mobile.twitter.com/JaredWyand/status/683411101447516160?s=09

[AuntieStella]

The Sunni/Shia division can be fraught at the best of times. This has to be a major flashpoint.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35216694

(And it is not just countries who have shariah-based law which hand down death sentences. The methods of judicial killings may vary, but it always ends in death, quickly one hopes, but with drugs or elelectricy too often not the case).

[fourmummy]

More to the point, does anyone have any theories on why they did this now, at this time. Several inflammatory reasons discussed here www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3383240/Why-does-Britain-cosy-butchers-MICHAEL-BURLEIGH-examines-impact-Saudi-Arabia-s-decision-execute-47-prisoners-including-Shiite-cleric.html

[claig]

I think the Saudis are worried and want to force their allies to turn against Iran. Will they do it? Will Obama reverse the Iran deal? Will the new US government change policy over Iran? What happens if Trump gets in? Trump has been anti the Iran deal but no one knows what he would do.

I think that the Saudis are getting desperate and that they may be being tricked and will end up not being helped. It is possible that we may see huge changes in Saudi Arabia and Turkey, who may also be being tricked.

[claig]

The Saudis are worried about Russia in Syria and so are the Turks. Trump has said he thinks he will get on well with Putin. Obama has been soft on Iran according to the Saudis' viewpoint. Time may be running out for the Saudi regime and they are trying to sabotage a deal on Syria by breaking relations with Iran and by trying to force their allies to join with them.

[claig]

'am also worried about that kid that took part in the protests who was sentenced to death, haven't heard anything about him since and can't find info on web.'

He is the nephew of the Shia cleric who was executed. The nephew is Shia too.

[DesertOrDessert]

I can't find the news article, but I have memories of Saudi saying they would not kill those sentenced as teens. Ali Mohammed al-Nimr decision reversed at the same time the Brit caught with Alcohol was returned to the UK before the lashes were started.

[DoctorTwo]

IMO the killing of Sheikh Nimr al Nimr was deliberate. They knew Iran would be incensed and did it anyway. Their idealism is behind Daesh, and we really shouldn't be supplying them with more weapons.

[fourmummy]

Yes, the timing is 'interesting'. If anyone has seen Bitter Lake, I wonder if they are artificially keeping the oil price low just to spike it up very soon and create an oil crisis, as per previous.

[fourmummy]

Reports are that the nephew is still alive.

[DesertOrDessert]

Oil prices are starting to hurt Saudi. Fuel has just gone up 40% as they remove some of the subsidies tho its still cheeper than water

But yes, I think making some of the shale gas and oil uneconomical might be of interested to OPEC. There is also questions about Iran's oil coming back on line soon, and the effect that will have on the oil market.

[timelytess]

People have different worldviews and what one group finds shocking can be radically different from what a group with a different worldview does. Prize for stating the obvious goes to Tess.

No, people don't understand. They don't understand how deeply ingrained a worldview, socialisation, is. This becomes very obvious when people brought up in a Western Liberal tradition assume that 'all decent people want the same things that we want'. No. Some very decent people, living their lives according to their religious or non-religious beliefs, want outcomes that would shake you to the core.

[prh47bridge]

I wonder if they are artificially keeping the oil price low just to spike it up very soon and create an oil crisis

They've pretty much lost the ability to do so due to the growth of fracking. US production of oil has nearly doubled over the last 5 years with a corresponding sharp drop in the level of oil imports.

[fourmummy]

No, people don't understand. They don't understand how deeply ingrained a worldview, socialisation, is. This becomes very obvious when people brought up in a Western Liberal tradition assume that 'all decent people want the same things that we want'. No. Some very decent people, living their lives according to their religious or non-religious beliefs, want outcomes that would shake you to the core. A very true sentiment, and very unusual on these boards

[hefzi]

It always interests me, that over 40 years since the Arabs used the Oil Weapon, and brought parts of the western world to their knees as a result, there was no real moves towards ending our dependence on oil until the development of fracking. It seems short-sighted at best.

The FCO has issued a statement claiming that KSA wasn't specifically left out of the mission to end the use of the death penalty, it's just that otehr examples were used That said, they don't execute the greatest number of people, so they aren't the worst offenders. There seem to be big ructions in the diplomatic games atm - the UAE have recalled their ambassador to Iran, for example. But the whole KSA/Iran struggle is being played out in Yemen and Syria/Iraq atm - I don't like the Iranian regime, and I would prefer them not to have nuclear weapons, as they don't always act rationally (in the academic sense, not the popular one) but I particularly don't like Saudi. And I definitely don't like what will come after the current Saudi regime falls.

[batshitlady]

Very interesting article. Please have a look, it sums up our policy RE: The Saudi's

[fourmummy]

Batshitlady Very interesting article indeed. We also know from historical documents that FDR agreed to ignore SA's practice and spread of Wahhaabism in return for, basically, oil. Is this particular shit show all coming to an end now?

[originalmavis]

The worrying thing is that if the house of saud was deposed, what would take its place? Look at Iraq, Libya - evil tyrants deaptched for... Daesh? Wahabis aren't exactly the Salvation Army are they?

[fourmummy]

That is a very salient point Mavis. Does anyone have any theories?

[claig]

If it happened, I think it might be a general or Saddam type figure who could control it - it wouldn't fall into the hands of Jihadis. That wouldn't be allowed. The Jihadis can be stopped.

Trump was on Fox last night and said that he would protect Saudi Arabia but would expect them to pay for it. No one knows what Trump would really do, so nothing is for certain. Trump keeps saying "take the oil" off Isis in Syria etc. He might take the oil, but then again he might not. No one knows. There is a possibility of deals with Russia if Trump gets on with Putin or the plan may be a war with Iran to protect Saudi Arabia etc. No one really knows.

But I get the feeling that the Saudis and Turks may be being set up with the amount of bad publicity that is now beginning to come out about who is funding and helping Isis etc.

Trump will change policy entirely by the look of it. He has said that Hillary is responsible for the mess in the Middle East.

[claig]

'Look at Iraq, Libya - evil tyrants deaptched for... Daesh? '

That was the old policy that Trump says was crazy - Obaa, Hillary, Sarkozy, Cameron etc

If Trump wins, I think that will all change.

[claig]

The reason we are in such terrible, dangerous times looks to be for economic reasons. Elites are scrambling to control the outcomes. I think Trump will save the day if we get to November 2016 before a crash or greater worldwide mess.

This was in the Daily Star at the end of November.

"In a bleak prediction, top analysts fear stock markets will crumble this month and have consequences across the world worse than the 2008 financial crisis.

And following the Paris terror attacks and heightened tensions across Europe, the economy is facing uncertain territory. Experts pin the blame with corporate America, claiming "disfunction" is rife across Washington and Wall Street.

One economist believes we are on the brink of a phenomenon dubbed the Shemitah – a Biblical pattern suggesting a super financial collapse could happen imminently.

Both insiders share the same message: "It's not if it will happen, it's when it will happen."

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/476992/global-economy-collapsing-days

Carl Icahn is Trump's mate and Trump wants him to sort trade with China etc instead of teh "losers" that are in charge now says Trump.

"Icahn blames the inability to reform tax over 30 years, not repatriating cash generated by US companies abroad, and reckless firms buying other businesses to increase stocks – rather than reinvesting in capital – for a potential financial collapse.

He also blames multi-millionaires paying minimal taxes.

Icahn said: "I have been worried about the market and the economy over the dangerous spot we are in.

"I feel so strongly about the disfunction in Washington and the boardrooms of corporate America. We have a short term thinking government."

----

With Trump things will be sorted and there won't be a world war with Russia, but there will be losers but it won't be America and the West.

[claig]

This is what I think will happen if Trump wins - a total reversal of Hillary policies etc. It will provide safety and an end to DJ Jihadis threatening us and governments removing our liberties. It will clear up the mess in the Middle East and begin to solve the economic problems of the world. If Trump loses, I think we are in for a bad time, more of the same losing policies with our allies funding Jihadis etc.

"The world would be a better place if dictators such as Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi were still in power, top Republican US presidential hopeful Donald Trump said in comments aired Sunday.

The billionaire real estate tycoon also told CNN's State Of The Union talk show that the Middle East 'blew up' around US President Barack Obama and former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, his biggest Democratic rival in the race for the White House.

'One hundred percent,' Trump said when asked if the world would be better off with Saddam and Gaddafi still at the helm in Iraq and Libya."


www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3288722/World-better-place-Saddam-Kadhafi-power-Trump.html

[fourmummy]

The billionaire real estate tycoon also told CNN's State Of The Union talk show that the Middle East 'blew up' around US President Barack Obama and former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, his biggest Democratic rival in the race for the White House. 'One hundred percent,' Trump said when asked if the world would be better off with Saddam and Gaddafi still at the helm in Iraq and Libya." He's not wrong, is he?

[Frisk]

Bitter Lake, directed by Adam Curtis, is on bbc I-player under a.

It is brilliant.