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Is there anything or anybody that the US police won't shoot?

(54 Posts)
hiddenhome2 Thu 22-Oct-15 09:33:09

Not content with shooting black people, women and adolescents, the police in a state in America have now shot dead a non aggressive dog which was on its own property DM link here hmm

Where will this end?

A toddler having a tantrum in a store?

A baby crying for its bottle?

A pet rabbit?

An elderly person crossing the road?


hiddenhome2 Thu 22-Oct-15 09:34:56

Oh, look, they shoot pregnant women too Guardian Link here

Seriously? What is the matter with these people?

KatharineClifton Thu 22-Oct-15 09:38:47

I guess. It must be quite a frightening job to be a copper over there though.

coffeeisnectar Thu 22-Oct-15 09:47:06

Nothing surprises me. I'm pretty sure people go to police academy and say they want to be a cop and are just handed a gun, badge and a set of car keys.

Even their police chases are overkill involving 50 odd cars.

The more I see and hear about this country, the less inclined I am to ever visit.

hiddenhome2 Thu 22-Oct-15 09:47:09

It must be frightening, but they're pretty quick to shoot. Don't they receive training?

Did you see the video of the teen that was shot recently? It was a minor traffic violation and he wasn't armed or violent. The cop totally over reacted and made the situation worse. He escalated it and the boy was killed because of this. It was recorded on the cop's camera.

hiddenhome2 Thu 22-Oct-15 09:48:23

My son is going to visit DC in February as part of his politics course. I find it a disturbing country tbh.

HeySoulSister Thu 22-Oct-15 09:59:14

It's a huge country. Massive. Surprised there aren't more shootings really

And as for police procedure and investigations, we never ever hear the full story about any, either here or abroad

SlaggyIsland Thu 22-Oct-15 10:02:47

The police being scared is no excuse. It's a far scarier job being a police officer in South Africa and even they aren't as trigger happy.

Qwebec Thu 22-Oct-15 17:09:08

There was a case of a young man, hands cuffed behind his back seated in the police back seat who, according to the police report, took a hidden gun out of his socks and shot himself in the face. No investigation was ever made aven if it was physically impossible for him to do so.

As they say, dead people don't speak. After that nothing suprises me.

barkingfly Thu 22-Oct-15 19:29:35


CatMilkMan Sat 24-Oct-15 12:32:12

What a ridiculously stupid thread.

Proginoskes Sat 24-Oct-15 22:21:20

Speaking as an American (who is thoroughly fucking disgusted with all the police shooting people who came nowhere near deserving it), I think so far the only people who are safe are, um, maybe older white men. As long as they don't look like they're poor or mentally ill. But yeah, pretty much "older white men" and that's it.

DontHaveAUsername Mon 26-Oct-15 14:13:17

They get very decent training before starting the job, and many also train in their free time because of the availability of owning guns and going to firing ranges.

Without knowing how the officer perceived things at the time it's impossible for me to say whether he was reasonable in whether did or not. If something happened that made him think the dog was a threat he would be justified in doing what he did, even if it later transpired the dog was never a threat.

People who say that America offices overreact, remember that they have a different threat model to our own bobbies. If one of our guys does a traffic stop the worst he's going to get is a bit of verbal and possibly the motorist taking a swing at him. Nasty but nothing to worry about long term. An America officer doing a traffic stop is potentially facing an irked motorist taking a gun out and shooting him. So they need to be a bit more authoritative in order to control the situation. Our bobbies seem more laid back by comparison but they face less of a general threat to their own safety.

DontHaveAUsername Mon 26-Oct-15 14:14:25

American OFFICERS that is. I've never known an American "office" to overreact to anything.

IAmNotAMindReader Mon 26-Oct-15 17:12:58

I remember listening to an interview with a retired officer who stated that starting from the late 80's onward, attitudes in training started to shift. The training moved away from de-escalation and calming a situation before it arose and more towards escalating the situation in order to obtain a quicker solution.

DontHaveAUsername Tue 27-Oct-15 12:03:24

"The training moved away from de-escalation and calming a situation before it arose and more towards escalating the situation in order to obtain a quicker solution."

Did they say why? If it was to increase officer safety because officers were being hurt/dying from defaulting too much to de-escalation then it would make sense. I'm guessing there must have been a reason for the shift, even if that wasn't it.

batshitlady Wed 28-Oct-15 16:35:46

I agree with whoever said they're actually surprised that there aren't more shootings in the USA given the proliferation of firearms and the casual attitude to guns and gun ownership. They seem proud of it in fact.

I remember it really struck me when I was over there last. I was in a shopping mall and the two security guards were both heavily armed. I remember t would only take one of them to flip his wig/ have a bad day/ loose his temper and there could be dozens dead. After that occurred to me I never really felt safe . America is a great country but I wouldnt live there if you paid me.

DontHaveAUsername Wed 28-Oct-15 17:16:12

That's true batshitlady but if you live your life with that level of fear it's never going to be great for you. The local butcher on this side of the pond could flip out and massacre a handful of customers with bis knives, as knife massacres can and do happen. The local police officer could have a bad day and whack me with his truncheon on the head, fatally injuring me. These risks do exist but it's important to put them into context of the bigger picture. That security guards could also SAVE your life, they are there for your own protection

Cleansheetsandbedding Wed 28-Oct-15 17:19:44

I watched a video today of a security/police officer in a high school throwing a young girl to the floor. It was awful. The class were petrified of him and some pupils even looking away. All because she got her phone out sad

I think it's a very scary place to be if your a black person

BrandNewAndImproved Wed 28-Oct-15 17:20:30

My uncle has a daughter that lives in America. He needed a cashpoint machine and saw two policemen. He went to go and ask the policemen where the nearest one was and his daughter tried to stop him. He said don't be so ridiculous they'll help.

As he started walking over they pulled out their guns. He put up his hands and said I just wanted to know where the nearest atm is. They laughed and said you must be British no one else would approach us and put their guns away.

How scary is that!

DontHaveAUsername Wed 28-Oct-15 20:34:17

On the surface that does sound odd I'll admit. However there may have been things your uncle wasn't privy to that caused this to happen. Perhaps there was intelligence to suggest a threat, for example there may have been a threat issued against local officers promising that they would be attacked in the streets and they were a bit more alert and cautious of members of the public approaching them than usual. Without knowing whether this was the case we can't say for sure whether they were wrong or not to do so, but I'll definitely agree it sounds bad.

DontHaveAUsername Wed 28-Oct-15 23:28:09

I think the classroom thing was because she had been ordered to move and was uncooperative. What do people think will happen if they don't follow apolice instruction? "OK you cary on doing what you like don't mind me"?

batshitlady Thu 29-Oct-15 17:40:47

Donthave I don't now, nor did I live my life in America with 'that level of fear'. I did though find disturbing and threatening the sight of so many people openly carrying firearms. You cannot in any rational way compare the danger one incurs daily in a society like that with one in which people do not carry guns. By implying we're in just as much danger in this country from truncheons and knives you are deluding yourself.

security guards could also SAVE your life Yes from other people exercising their constitutional right to bare arms.... Can you see a pattern here?

Why exactly are you trying to rationalise away and normalise people pulling guns on each other anyway? These are lethal weapons that everyone and anyone is allowed, indeed encouraged to carry about their person. It isn't America that's being criticised here, it's the ubiquity of firearms there that is under discussion.

DontHaveAUsername Thu 29-Oct-15 18:01:11

"Yes from other people exercising their constitutional right to bare arms.... Can you see a pattern here?"

Not just from that, from other acts of violence to. If someone assaulted you at a shopping mall, those security guards you were scared of would be able to bring the situation under control very quickly with their weapons, preventing you from coming to any further harm, preventing themselves from coming to harm, and almost certainly preventing the attacker from coming to any harm. A much better resolution than having to grapple with him and try pulling him away from you.

"Donthave I don't now, nor did I live my life in America with 'that level of fear'. I did though find disturbing and threatening the sight of so many people openly carrying firearms."

If you're walking around feeling "disturbed" by law abiding people carrying guns then you clearly do have what I see as an unnaturally high level of fear. The threats you talk about exist, but it's on the same level as being terrified of going into the butcher just in case he gets mad and stabs you with those huge knives. Or feeling disturbed at a baseball game in case one of the players has a bad match, and randomly starts cracking your skull open with his baseball bat. Possible yes, but highly improbable and not worth living your life in fear of.

batshitlady Thu 29-Oct-15 19:09:34

Yes acts of violence potentially with guns, which have a far greater chance of leading to fatal injury. And if they're not so common, then, er, that means less chance fatal injury?

The rest of your post is pure gobbledegook. .

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