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The SNP says the UK (not Scotland) is on “borrowed time”

(117 Posts)
Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 12:45:43

A SNP needing oil over $100 a barrel to even hope to balance its annual budget, apparently needing to be in a low growth uncompetitive Europe, want more UK national debt they previously threatened to walk away from, not using the devolved powers they already have, and no longer wants a Trident deterrent - as will somehow be safe from the blasts/fallouts when the rest of the UK gets nuked – says that if their 5 million citizens can’t decide what the other 60 million want, they want to leave the UK.

Goldman Sees 15 Years of Weak Crude as $20 U.S Oil Looms

A glut of crude may keep oil prices low for the next 15 years, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

There’s less than a 50 percent chance that prices will drop to $20 a barrel, most likely when refineries shut in October or March for maintenance, Jeffrey Currie, head of commodities research at the bank, said Wednesday in an interview in Lake Louise, Alberta. Goldman’s long-term forecast for crude is at $50 a barrel, he said.

The people of Scotland who appear to be encouraging the SNP to take this continual threatening stance, really needs to be better informed by the SNP on the financial prospects of an independent Scotland – which in reality is the ONLY SNP short, medium and long term objective.

Nearly 60 Scottish Westminster MP’s especially with a single purpose, should be fully capable of negotiating with the government.

Specifying exactly WHAT powers they additionally want the current ones already given don’t cover – rather than offering this continual mono bluster pissing off the vast majority within the UK including many Scots – as it is surely counter productive for practical and good will reasons, when all parties really know Scotland can’t economically afford the SNP's objective.

Anyone, especially the SNP, who can show a Scotland can afford to be without the current Barnett Formula, please show the independence projected finances - as if I am wrong, I will be happy to say so.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 16:54:31

18/9/ 2015; Alex Salmond: BBC bias was 'significant factor' in deciding Scottish independence referendum

In an interview with The Independent exactly a year on from the historic vote, Scotland’s former First Minister renewed his attack on the BBC’s coverage of the referendum, saying his “biggest regret” of the campaign was not foreseeing the extent of its “institutional bias”.

Mr Salmond also launched an extraordinary broadside against the wider Scottish media, describing the country’s right wing press as “prejudicial, short sighted lunatics” who “infect” social media with purposefully slanted articles.

Says the man who insisted that Scotland could keep the Pound and UK interest rates to borrow to his heart was content (but was told he could not), had a several £billion financial black hole in his economic math - and later bragged that the SNP would keep the Conservatives out of government and write Labour’s first 2015 budget.
Nothing short sighted there then, to be sorted AFTER independence and the bills needed to be paid.

Scotland’s electorate gifting the SNP with all those Westminster seats last May have done the SNP no favours, as like Scotty in Star Trek always looking for more power for the captain, the quest for ever more warp power has gone to their heads - and Salmon is left telling anyone who will listen ‘I was a contender, but the fight was fixed’, like an old punch drunk boxer.

Lauren15 Fri 18-Sep-15 16:59:40

I detest Sturgeon's threatening tone in the statement that we are living on 'borrowed time.' There's an arrogance about it, as if the rest of the UK will be the losers if Scotland leaves. I'm Scottish but live down South but I know that all my family and friends in Scotland are very frustrated by the Neverendum talk. They voted (no) and want to move on.

prettybird Fri 18-Sep-15 17:31:42

The current UK Government does not balance its budget either - that's what the deficit is - the UK debt that is continuing to grow... hmm

Not sure there are many countries in the world that are currently balancing their budget. The oil rich countries with the exception of the UK are amongst the few.

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 22:11:44

Prettybird … you are correct that the UK government currently runs a budget deficit, probably just south of £70 billion a year, having inherited a £153 billion deficit in 2010 – the balancing of which socialist politicians call ideological austerity, rather than good national financial housekeeping.

I suspect even some rich oil companies are running annual budget deficits with the price of oil where it is e.g. Saudi Arabia, but while the UK has a £1.6 trillion of national debt and half the gold reserves we had before the 1997 general election, the rich oil countries have their Sovereign Wealth Funds that have many $billions of investments that could liquidate to cover their annual deficits.

But how about an independent Scotland?

- Scotland would have a portion of that £1.6 trillion plus of national debt they want us to run up further, not reduce, and not a share in an Arab or Norwegian SWFund’s investments to fall back on.

- Scotland does not have an international bond credit rating from the three main agencies; the UK has a split AAA/AA+ rating which means we can borrow relatively cheaply, I see recent Standard & Poors lowered Japans to single A+ - so what would Scotland’s be from Day One of independence with their smaller economy, a portion of UK national debt and a large budget deficit relative to potential GDP?

- Scotland does not have a Scottish currency to issue government bond in.

- Scotland does not have a mature government bond market/established yield curve between 2-years and 30-years for the government or Scottish companies to price new bond issuance off of.

Apparently when those outside and inside Scotland were pointing out these fundamental flaws in the Scottish independence plan, Mr Salmond calls them ”prejudicial, short term lunatics.”

Whereas I would suggest that any political party so intent in nationalism that they launches their country/people into financial independence with none of the above in place, they are ”irresponsible, long term lunatics.”

Isitmebut Fri 18-Sep-15 22:27:25

Lauren15 .... I totally agree with that view on Sturgeons arrogance, it REALLY gets my goat up as I never react well to threats.

Thank you, as I'm encouraged that there really are people in Scotland that want to move on, as Mr Salmond is feeling emboldened stating that polls after the Referendum continually show the Independence vote gaining momentum - and he appears confident that a vote now would be different - hence my OP about the financial realities.

I suspect that both the combination of that 'growing' support and the hunch that whatever Cameron delivers it will never be enough, that gives them that arrogance - so only the Scottish people concerned that even the Queen could get pissed off and give them want they want, can wind the SNP's necks in - by giving them something else to think about via probing questions and the ballot box.

specialsubject Sat 19-Sep-15 10:11:06

'waah! I didn't get my own way! Waaah! Unfair!'

she's as bad as her predecessor, and continues to insult her people because they didn't agree with what she wanted.

tempting to say we should saw them off and let them float away - but that's not what the Scots want. Time Sturgeon recognised that and stopped whinging about it.

although she never will.

HarrietVane99 Sat 19-Sep-15 10:44:54

David Cameron (good Scottish name there) doesn't need to worry about Sturgeon' s posturing, does he? The SNP success in Scotland went a long way to winning the election for him. It's Labour that should be worried. What are they doing about it? I can't see Islington Jeremy appealing to Scottish voters. Has he even mentioned Scotland, in his campaign or since his election?

I have Scottish friends. They dislike Sturgeon even more than they disliked Salmond. She doesn't speak for all Scottish people.

RJnomaaaaaargh Sat 19-Sep-15 10:49:28

I'm disgusted with the snp - even more than usual. The question was asked, we answered it. I want to get on with my life which includes making the world a better place for everyone and I would suggest they do the same and accept the democratic will of the majority of Scotland. Not act like a four year old who didn't win pass the parcel.

ReallyTired Sat 19-Sep-15 10:56:48

The scottish referedum was close. Its understandable that the SNP was devestated. The SNP is clearly popular in scotland as labour, tories and SNP only have one seat each in scotland. The scottish population understands that a vote for SNP is a vote for independence.

harrasseddotcom Sat 19-Sep-15 11:07:50

What ReallyTired said. But I guess it must be annoying for non SNP members having to accept that people voted for SNP in the GE (and thus giving them a legitimacy) in the same way that that the majority of Scotland must feel about having the Tories in power.

PacificDogwod Sat 19-Sep-15 11:10:32

What is your interest in this, itsmebut? Genuine question.
I am very impressed by you being motivated enough to post all this.

I just cannot bring myself to be quite as outraged, but I agree with ReallyTired too.

Kampeki Sat 19-Sep-15 11:22:16

I think the Scottish people should have another referendum if they want it, though I'm aware that many don't. I guess the overwhelming success of the SNP in the general election gives them a mandate to pursue this.

This time, though, I think that rUK politicians should stay out of it and just let the Scots make their decision either way without any interference. There are too many more important issues that our politicians need to be focusing on, and we can't afford for this issue to keep hijacking the time, resources and attention of our government. It is obviously important for the Scottish people (or at least, for some of them), but for the rest of us, it's just a distraction from the issues that really matter.

harrasseddotcom Sat 19-Sep-15 11:33:30

This time, though, I think that rUK politicians should stay out of it This i couldnt agree with more.

SirChenjin Sat 19-Sep-15 11:38:21

More posturing from that god-awful woman.

littledafty Sat 19-Sep-15 11:47:36

Scotland voted NO by a 10% majority, which is actually quite a large difference.
Nicola came across as very arrogant, I know a lot of people who voted yes and they're fed up with it now too. Nicola is losing support in my area and these people are staunch SNP.

QueenLaBeefah Sat 19-Sep-15 11:53:44

Sturgeon can get on with doing the job that she is paid very handsomely to do (best paid politician in the UK). Everything in Scotland is falling apart because the SNP refuse to do their day job. Totally sick of them now.

OTheHugeManatee Sat 19-Sep-15 11:54:33

At 45/55 it was never going to go away after the referendum. I'm a unionist by instinct but sadly I think Sturgeon is probably right and the Union will eventually separate as so many Scots seem to feel strongly about wanting to go it alone.

Personally I'd prefer it if they got on with seceding rather than this neverending grievance-mongering. I don't want my country to be in a Union with another country who doesn't want to be there.

OTheHugeManatee Sat 19-Sep-15 11:56:22

Also, when are the rUK electorates going to get a vote on whether we want to stay in a union with Scotland?

And also also, when are we finally going to get English votes for English laws?

HarrietVane99 Sat 19-Sep-15 12:21:21

Fewer people voted SNP in the General Election than voted YES in the referendum. I don't know what Sturgeon is basing her posturing on, or why she thinks another referendum in a couple of years would produce a different answer.

SirChenjin Sat 19-Sep-15 12:46:46

She's posturing became Jeremy Corbyn is speaking to people . are increasingly disillusioned with the SNP and all all th as t they failed to deliver. Anything to keep the one trick pony of theirs in the papers.

No idea why anyone thinks independece is inevitable (unless they are easily taken in by SNP rhetoric)

Behooven Sat 19-Sep-15 12:51:34

sirC they are using their usual tactic of 'if you say something often enough it will be regarded as fact'
I lost count of the number of times they've used this ploy successfully, naive people unfortunately fall for it time and again.

SirChenjin Sat 19-Sep-15 12:56:46

I quite agree - couple that with their standing orders which means that SNP politicians are forbidden from speaking against the party and you close down all debate and questioning of what exactly they have achieved for Scotland, beyond the endless 'it's no fair'.

Behooven Sat 19-Sep-15 15:52:52

Yet another tedious rally in George Square, 'Hope over Fear'. How many times do they need to be told it wasn't fear which won the No vote!

""Scotland is now a Yes country and the next referendum will prove that."
Arrogant as well. although it was Tommy Sheridan so he's probably lying

cdtaylornats Sat 19-Sep-15 16:54:00

I want a referendum but I want the question to be "Should we terminate the failed experiment of devolution"

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