Corporate Communism this is the beginning

[squidzin]

Or actually this has been going on for a while now so we're somewhere in the middle now.
How is it a democracy when power lies entirely in the hands of corporate giants who run our government, pass all legislation to benefit capital and suppress people?

The Tories in the most unfathomable crushing of democracy are to make it illegal to peacefully picket for workers rights

They are already snooping into our private communications. Better not say the word "PROTEST" or you'll have a bullet through your ear.

Wake up. Communism is here, privately funded.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/15/trade-unions-conservative-offensive-decades-strikes-labour

[worldgonecrazy]

Anyone who thinks we're living in a democracy is fooling themselves. Plutocracy is not a word that gets mentioned often, perhaps there's a suppresor or those who use it disappear.

[squidzin]

Plutocracy, indeed.

[Isitmebut]

I have to larf that in our perpetual UK class war, where all businesses are Victorian bad, any Conservative help to get them off their knees from the worst recession in over 80-years and start investing/hiring, is seen by the red flag brigade (who to feck all prior to may 2010 other than RAISE their costs of hiring), as "giving THEM power". lol

Creating jobs/investment/growth to pay our country bills and pay off the socialists debts is not Communism, that ideology was tried elsewhere and I'm still can't see a single country where it worked and their people are better off.

As to measure to actually curb tax corporate tax evasion etc, that is being handled, under a Conservative administration not a socialist one that kissed more capitalist arses in order to try raise funds to give them independence from Trade Union funding, than I've had makeovers e.g. Labour lowered Capital Gains Tax to a tapered 10% low.

London: June 17, 2013 – Thomson Reuters participated in an event hosted by Prime Minister David Cameron on transparency, tax, and trade – the three topics central to this year’s G8 Summit.
tax.thomsonreuters.com/media-resources/g8-open-for-growth-event/

“Noose tightens around global tax evasion as OECD countries sign new agreement”
www.cityam.com/1414597567/noose-tightens-around-global-tax-evasion-oecd-countries-sign-new-agreement

"The OECD just took a step closer to fighting tax evasion on a global scale, with 51 territories agreeing to create “information exchanges” that will help track culprits down."

"The first signatories to the dull-sounding "multilateral competent authority agreement" – which include the UK and Ireland – will launch their information exchanges by September 2017. Others will follow in 2018."

[Isitmebut]

P.S. Re "snooping our private communications"; I don't know where you are, but in the UK we have a constant threat of terrorism, where friends and family say either 'I had no idea this person was a potential ragging terrorist' or 'I thought they were saying odd things, but thought it might pass'.

[prh47bridge]

The Tories in the most unfathomable crushing of democracy are to make it illegal to peacefully picket for workers rights

No they are not. Today you can picket provided it is peaceful and there are no more than 6 people on the picket line. That will still be true after these changes become law.

If the picket is not peaceful or there are too many people on the picket line that is currently a civil offence. The government intends to make it a criminal offence.

Your right to picket will not be changed. All that is changing (assuming this isn't amended by parliament) is the enforcement if you break the law.

Better not say the word "PROTEST" or you'll have a bullet through your ear

Please point me at the cases where that has happened in the UK. Or are you confusing the UK with some other country.

[squidzin]

Dear oh dear Isitme.
Your establishment blind naivete is astounding.

You think we all live withinin true free market ideology capitalism?

Huge monopolies devour independent businesses, and set legislation to advantage their own agenda.

If everyone had a budget of £4million a year to lobby the government, (Shell et al) then fair game.

Current Government enables corruption. Gleefully and willful!
You are happy for an entirely unregulated London property market to be skewed inflated and broken by proceeds from international crime, while simultaneously repressing the voice of anyone (the people) who decides to peacefully protest against this, when this is the right thing to do.

You are happy for anyone who points out that Arcadia et al are engaged in 3rd world exploitation (+etc) by way of peaceful protest, to get sent to jail???

Suppressing the only voices against corporate capital domination, can only lead to more and worse.

[squidzin]

No more than 6 people

[squidzin]

This "constant threat of terrorists" somewhat conveniently enables certain tech companies £trillions in data selling and tracking mostly for commercial advantage.

Not a lot of terrorists caught mind you.

[cdtaylornats]

squidzin did you miss that thing in May when a larger number of people voted for this government than voted against it?

New trade union rules were in the manifesto.

[OftheTwilighttheDarkness]

Squidzin is Owen Jones and I claim my £5.

[prh47bridge]

You are happy for anyone who points out that Arcadia et al are engaged in 3rd world exploitation (+etc) by way of peaceful protest, to get sent to jail???

I would not be happy if peaceful protesters obeying the law got sent to prison. Thankfully that doesn't happen in this country.

No more than 6 people

Why the hollow laugh? That is the law and has been for a long time. I have seen many picket lines that comply with this limit. Or are you suggesting that pickets should be able to turn out in large numbers to intimidate non-strikers?

[blacksunday]

Anti-union legislation in this country is already the toughest in europe, and the number of strikes is at a historical low.

There is absolutely no need for further anti-union legislation. Given our economy based on low-wages, long-hours, and job-insecurity, laws preventing Unions from carrying out the democratic right to strike and support their workers should be repealed.

This attack on unions and the right to strike is profoundly democratic. The Tory scum are effectively trying to make strikes entirely impossible to carry out, and ineffective if they are.

There is class war going on. The Tories against the working public.

[blacksunday]

*existing laws, I meant. To put the UK further in line with the rest of the democratic world.

[prh47bridge]

Anti-union legislation in this country is already the toughest in Europe

No it isn't. It isn't even close.

the number of strikes is at a historical low

Also untrue. It is lower than it was in the 60s and 70s but it is currently on a rising trend.

laws preventing Unions from carrying out the democratic right to strike and support their workers should be repealed

It is a good job we don't have any such laws and the government don't plan any either. The laws we have simply ensure that a strike is called properly.

The Tory scum are effectively trying to make strikes entirely impossible to carry out

Not at all. They are simply saying that if you want to call a strike you need a decent turnout in the ballot. If union members don't feel strongly enough to vote why should the union be allowed to call a strike?

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the entire premise of the thread is wrong. The government is not making it illegal to peacefully picket for workers rights.

[Isitmebut]

Based on the UK's industrial strike record allowing the German's and Japanese to steal our manufacturing lunch money, there is a REASON why this country WOULD have put in place in the 1980's the toughest legislation in Europe - our workers were led by donkeys with more allegiance to the old Soviet Union than the British Queen and country.

“Douglas Eden reveals the extraordinary penetration of the 1970s Labour movement by pro-Soviet trade unionists and the extent of Callaghan’s toleration of the hard Left.”
www.spectator.co.uk/features/3665728/we-came-close-to-losing-our-democracy-in-1979/

A perfect example and worth reading about IN FULL what happens when militant trade unions think they run a company, or indeed the country.
news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8401000/8401200.stm

“British Leyland's Speke factory symbolised all that was wrong with UK car manufacturing in the dark days of the 1970s, a million miles away from the high performing plants of today at Ellesmere Port and Halewood.”

“In 1978 British Leyland's Speke Number Two plant was under threat of closure, afflicted by a series of crippling strikes, low sales of the TR7 it manufactured, and a history of poor industrial relations coupled with inefficiencies.”

“In 1970 British Leyland, who had taken over Triumph, spent £10.5 million building Speke Number Two plant, it was one of the most modern and best equipped plants in Europe designed to build 100,000 vehicles a year all under one roof.”

“When BBC Nationwide visited in February 1978 the plant only had a few months of life left.”


As Trade Union bosses currently look to control our parliament and try to dictate government policy i.e. appointments of party leaders or proclaim to MPs they fund/sponser that any attempt to get our honking national finances under control can only be "austerity", the UK public has to be protected from a minority of militants in trade unions, striking and inconveniencing them for their own political agenda.

So rather than a militant faction intimidate other workers and carry their motion, a percentage of the total workers needing to have voted protects the company/industry/jobs and usually the public, if provides public services.

When the London Tube Drivers closed down London a year or so ago due to the L.T. management deciding Ticket Offices being closed, a politically driven strike was called not because their 'members' weren't offered new jobs/redundancy that they were unhappy with - it was because a trade union called it 'unsafe', as if anyone could fall on the lines from a ticket office. dah.

The Japanese have never had trade unions, the German's fell out of love with Communism after their men & women were murdered/raped by the Red Army after the fall of Berlin so their trade unions have always WORKED with management - not opposed them at every turn.

[catlovingdoctor]

What utter nonsense. Grow up!

[Florriesma]

Can i just point out that communism involves state ownership on behalf of the workers.

I.might not agree with the current crowd but I wouldn't describe them as communists. Ever.

[Isitmebut]

"I.might not agree with the current crowd but I wouldn't describe them as communists. Ever."

No 'communists' in the Labour/Trade Union Leadership. really????

Do you really have to belong to the party or label yourself communist in the 21st century to follow the basic principles - taking the example below and his Trade Union Leader support - as I would say not.


“I’ve lived under Jeremy Corbyn’s rule – it turned me into a Tory”

”When put into practice in the Seventies, the views of this loony Left-winger resulted in class hatred and Soviet-style stagnation”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11762773/Ive-lived-under-Jeremy-Corbyns-rule-it-turned-me-into-a-Tory.html

”Reader, I have lived in Corbyn World and I am here to tell you what it was like. It was in the London borough of Haringey, where my husband and I lived in the Seventies, in which Mr Corbyn made his first notable appearance on the public stage. As well as being a major force on Haringey council and in the Hornsey Labour Party, he had a day job as a full-time official of the National Union of Public Employees (now part of Unison) which involved him in employment negotiations with local councils. This dual role was not seen, oddly enough, as a conflict of interest.”

Concluding;
”This story has everything you need to know about life as it was under Corbyn Labour – class hatred, the indulgence of unionised labour, and the Soviet-style handing out of favours to party loyalists on the council payrolls. Mr Corbyn often says that his political principles have not changed. Take that as a threat.”

[DoctorTwo]

I would not be happy if peaceful protesters obeying the law got sent to prison. Thankfully that doesn't happen in this country

Of course not. But only because sometimes juries see through the bullshit. But the charge of violent disorder is being used more and more often against people whose crime appears to be resisting getting a baton to the face.

To return to the subject of the OP, of course we have corporate socialism, otherwise the bosses of the world's favourite money launderer, HSBC, would be in the dock. The boss of Barclays would be there for LIBOR, gold, FOREX and other fixes. Those two who resigned from Deutsche Bank would be there too. Plus their institutions would be filing for bankruptcy. Instead we are forcing the poorest into further penury and condemning our young to debt they'll never be able to pay back.

[Isitmebut]

TwosDoctor ....And WHY would the bosses/directors of any bank with tens of thousands of employees over numerous countries be in the dock for any illegal activities their employees in any far flung country or floor, when they don't directly supervise them, only one Manager would, and there are probably several other managers/directors are in between?

And as the START of the financial crisis was due to a practice of giving Sub Prime Mortgage loans in America to the very poorest in U.S. society since 1930 - AND as our banks are guilty of LOANING to anyone with a pulse ON DEMAND from 1997 to 2007 as bank balance sheets were allowed to leverage up to record levels - I fail to see the 'poorest' link.

Our poorest were confined to the jobs/homes scrap heap as 3 million new citizens were judged more worthy by their government, who's new homes policy was to (on average) build half the homes of the administration before so leaving 5 million (1.7 million families) needing social homes by 2010.

Government wasted the best decade of £££plenty to reshape society for the better and they totally screwed up, so IGNORING that and blaming companies isn't just dumb, its rather pathetic. Bless.

[DoctorTwo]

The only people in jail, or indeed those who faced charges and were acquitted, for financial crimes to do with the crash either stole from the rich or had unhedged positions that lost their bank money. Those bank bosses who had to be bailed out with taxpayers' money got away scot free.

As Gidiot says, "we're all in this together".

[Isitmebut]

First of all 'Gidiot' who became chancellor over 2-years after the financial crash - did not loosen bank regulation, form an ineffective regulatory tripartite, part nationalise RBS & Lloyds or give the Scotsman running RBS a 'kin knighthood - so a misuse of his infuriating mantra, sweetcheeks.

The 'problem' for those wanting top banking heads is that in the main, their 'crime' was lending too much to businesses and us ON DEMAND and thinking their 'risk' levels were hedged, or far less in the 2000's global low inflation/interest rate boom, versus the financial conditions in the decades before.

The closure on the interbank market as banks didn't know which banks to trust, meant governments had to provide massive liquidity, our government had to buy/nationalize bank equity, very few other had to.
www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/labour-regulations-city-rbs-collapse

The effect on small to medium sized businesses in Greece of banks only handing out 60 Euros a day has put many of those out of business after less than a month, how do you think we'd have coped in the UK if all banks here either went tits up or closed for a year or more ????

In summary the banking heads guilty of lending too much did not do a criminal act - especially as political parties soon after were trying to force them to lend more when they were trying to shrink their balance sheets - but all those in small banks that did, or departments of large banks conducting fraud, should be prosecuted, some were, others are at this moment.

[DoctorTwo]

So according to you all those banks who colluded in frauds like PPI, FOREX, LIBOR, Gold fixing etc did nothing wrong?

[prh47bridge]

PPI was mis-selling, not fraud.

FOREX investigations are ongoing. At least one banker faces charges.

At least 12 people have been charged with fraud over LIBOR. Some of them have already been convicted. The government has changed the law to make it easier to prosecute individuals for this kind of behaviour (which also covers gold price fixing).

Yes, it tends to be senior employees rather than the people at the very top but that is down to the need for evidence. You may believe that the chairman of Barclays knew about all these things but for a criminal prosecution you have to be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Simply saying "he must have known" is not good enough, not least because it isn't true. In any large organisation many things will be going on that the chairman, chief executive and board of directors know nothing about. You need a trail of evidence if you want to prosecute someone.

[Isitmebut]

I know talking 'financial' can be full of jargon (Swahili), but where have I said that?

DID the "frauds like PPI, FOREX, LIBOR, Gold fixing etc" bring down the banking system, or was it that banks (balance sheets) grew too large and unwieldy?

Well it was the latter as DAILY banks refinance themselves via the capital markets and the interbank market allows GLOBALLY banks with too much cash that day to trade it with banks with cash deficits - once that interbank market CLOSED, solvent banks could not fund themselves and roll over existing short/long term instruments e.g. C.D.s.

Next, did 'the banks' at Chairman/Directors at Board level "collude" in capital market frauds in "FOREX, LIBOR, Gold", certainly not, it was done by individual dealers working in some trading rooms acting in concert with other dealers in other banks.

Was there some widespread UK banks Chairman/Directors at Board knowledge of a UK citizen PPI scam, I don't know, as clearly it was a 'nice little earner' for them, but do the demi gods in the board rooms ask probing questions to the PPI selling retail division heads or accept nothing dodgy is going on?

So I reiterate, for Heads of banks that lent too much and thought their loan exposure was low risk/hedged within a financial/economic boom, they did not do a criminal act, the whole western interbank market had never closed before, never mind for several months - and the only 'punishment' for some was professional, as the financial institutions they ran, ceased to exist.

For everyone else who all took professional exams and knows financial law/regulations, drilled endlessly by their Compliance Departments, and still KNOWINGLY conducting fraud - they should be prosecuted, and new laws recently came in to give more powers to dish out custodial sentences.