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Why does it matter if the meat we eat comes from odgs?

(40 Posts)
AdventureBe Mon 22-Jun-15 10:34:21

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If you eat meat would you eat dog? I don't like the idea, but can't say why, it just doesn't seem right.

Provided the animals aren't reared in any worse conditions than other animals reared for meat, why is eating dog seen as such a bad thing? (by those who are happy to eat other animals)

EatShitDerek Mon 22-Jun-15 10:37:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Theknacktoflying Mon 22-Jun-15 10:38:37

Your link isn't working?

I think it is the idea of an animal who we encourage into our lives and homes should then be slaughtered for the pot doesn't sit well.

No cow has ever won BGT ... and some people are pretty ignorant about the whole milk/dairy/meat industry and how inhumane it is.

LadyPlumpington Mon 22-Jun-15 10:40:19

It is hypocritical to get upset when you see dogs treated the same way as cows/pigs/etc, but to just accept it as 'natural' when it is in fact cows/pigs/etc.

There needs to be far more emphasis on reliable humane standards of animal rearing and slaughter (I'll include the dairy industry there) - people just assume a lot of the time that it's not too bad, but it can be dreadful and they are unconsciously sanctioning it by buying the inhumanely-reared products.

AdventureBe Mon 22-Jun-15 10:40:21

sorry

LadyPlumpington Mon 22-Jun-15 10:41:39

I think the op meant this one:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-33220235

SanityClause Mon 22-Jun-15 10:41:47

People in the UK anthropomorphise dogs. We ascribe human characteristics and feelings to them. Therefore, we don't wish to eat them, because we imagine eating a friend, or someone who would have the capacity to be a friend.

I was once lucky enough to stay with a farmer's family in rural Taiwan. The daughters told me that they could not eat beef, as to their family, the cattle they used to work on the farm were "friends" to them and they could not eat their friend.

There is no logical reason why eating dog is any different to eating beef, that is true.

Theknacktoflying Mon 22-Jun-15 10:42:07

Lobsters are boiled alive
All male calves (dairy) are culled
Cows are kept in a permanent state of producing milk - slaughtered if not
Calves taken away from their mothers
Value only dependent on quality and quantity of milk

Superexcited Mon 22-Jun-15 10:48:47

I would rather eat a big juicy beef steak because I can't imagine that I would get much meat from the average dog.
I don't understand the furore around eating certain animals either. My only concern is that the animal is actually certified fit and safe for human consumption. I wasn't bothered about the possibility of of having eaten horse during the hose meat scandal, my only concern was that the origin of the horses wasn't known and therefore we didn't know if the meat was safe. Some People eat rabbit and rabbits are kept as pets.

momb Mon 22-Jun-15 10:59:36

I don't like the thought of eating something which is a carnivore and is therefore storing the metabolic consequences from everything that animal ate too: so I wouldn't eat snake, dog, cat.
I am not consistent in this though, so would eat most fish, seafood, pork (omnivore).
I have no problems eating 'cute' things over 'non-cute' things: lamb, goat etc compared to sheep/cow.

It's horses I really don't get: why don't we eat them?

BlueKarou Mon 22-Jun-15 11:20:32

I think, for me, it's a matter of a line I've drawn in the sand - I don't expect anyone else to adhere to it, but it's what feels right to me.

Dogs are on the 'do not eat' side of the line. I have had my own dog since I first moved out of the family house, and have had dogs in the family for as long as I can remember. I know others don't feel like this; but dogs are family to me. Similarly I wouldn't eat cat or ferret (not that there's any meat on them!) because they are creatures I've cared for, some of who I have fought to keep alive, and have been devastated when they've died. There's an emotional connection there.

For those animals whose meat I eat, it is important to me that they are humanely raised and humanely killed. Things like minimising the distance they have to travel all cramped in lorries, etc.

As Derek said, there are endless pictures of awful treatment and details of how animals for fur and food are kept and killed, particularly in China, where the festival is taking place, and surrounding countries. I don't think that's even remotely acceptable.

SonceyD0g Mon 22-Jun-15 11:20:37

We don't because of biomagnification.
If you are top of the food chain and kill and eat something which is also top of the food chain your body cannot break it down efficiently.
I don't eat much meat but am happy to eat goat, rabbit,venison etc.
I'd also eat horse if it was available even though I have two of my own. Most domestic horses cannot go into human food as medicines they will have received are carcinogens

LadyPlumpington Mon 22-Jun-15 11:56:36

If you are top of the food chain and kill and eat something which is also top of the food chain your body cannot break it down efficiently.

I think this comment needs to be clarified. Meat from animals at the top of the food chain can be broken down just the same as that of animals lower down; they don't have special different types of muscle or anything. However, the risk of biomagnification is real. If you eat a single insect then the amount of chemical X that it may contain is very low, but if you eat a fish that's eaten thousands of insects then the level is much higher and a potential risk to your health.

LazyLouLou Mon 22-Jun-15 13:20:01

Nice and clear, Lady, I couldn't clarify that better.

As for dogs, I have no comment. Living in a country where we don't eat a 'thing' gives me no right to comment on the normal, every day foodstuffs of another country (obvious exception applies). We consider beef to be fair game... others would disagree. So I am not going to be a hypocrite about it.

A dog is just another source of protein. Same as capybara and other rodents.

SlaggyIsland Tue 23-Jun-15 19:28:48

It's not just that we ascribe human feelings to dogs. We have literally bred them so that they have feelings very in tune with ours. They are a companion animal. It seems more of a betrayal.
Having said that, I can't agree with any animal being beaten, boiled and skinned alive, I'd be just as upset if it was being done to cows or sheep.

LazyLouLou Tue 23-Jun-15 22:09:00

I am not sure you can do it in that order, Slaggy.

Nor am I sure that dogs are boiled or skinned alive as a matter of course... a lot of the hyperbole seems to come from unknown or questionable sources, repeated with due DFail diligence.

A bit like the ant vivisectionists you find in shopping centres in the UK. Lots of empassioned pleas and nasty pictures of cruelty. But if you look closely the pictures are doctored or about 30 years old depicting practices long outlawed.

mcgiblets Wed 24-Jun-15 08:59:36

The argument that eating dogs is the same as other animals is complete nonsense.

Dogs as we know them exist solely because we bred them that way, to be our companions. It was the training and breeding of dogs that allowed us to put down roots and start to build communities as they protected our livestock from predators. We would still be hunter gatherers if not for dogs.

We have a relationship with dogs built up over 10's of thousands of years we should not under any circumstances be eating them. We should however treat all animals better, including the ones we do eat.

LazyLouLou Wed 24-Jun-15 11:10:10

Would that be the Western We, mcgiblets? It seems self evident that other parts of the world see it as being less objectionable.

As such I see absolutely no grounds on which I can complain. Meat is meat when you are hungry. And customs that evolve over centuries take time to change.

Much the same goes for animal welfare, sadly. The poorer the society the less likely that is to be. We cannot simply demand that countries with poor rural societies live by our post industrial revolution standards. They need to be given the room to grow and evolve as we did, without blanket condemnation for differing customs.

This seems to be happening, whether through shame at the worldwide press coverage or internal pressures. Maybe less rhetoric and condemnation and more understanding and support would get the job done more quickly!

SunshineAndShadows Wed 24-Jun-15 11:14:41

Because dogs aren't farmed to the same standards as livestock - they're stolen pets transported for thousands of miles and slaughtered in ways designed to maximise their suffering. It's a so called cultural practice, more like the Japanese dolphin slaughter than regulated farming, and practised by minirities so siesn't represent any particular country. It's also not associated with poverty as dog meat costs the same, if bornite than other meats

LazyLouLou Wed 24-Jun-15 11:26:24

Listening to a few hours worth of discussion on this yesterday dog farming may well supply some of the meat. And I am not sure anyone suggested that slaughter was designed to maximise suffering.

As for cost, it would have been easily available in a more agrarian society and then as I said, become custom.

The 'stolen pets' may well be more hyperbole. Unfortunately most of those discussing the issue had very set agendas, so I don't think we are in a position of having secure, current information regarding 'normal practice'.

Nevertheless, opinions in the East (not just China) are changing. We should be supporting the changes, not harping on and decrying what has been, may be, but is already not as it was in the most recent past.

It wont stop overnight. This festival will continue but it will change. It will evolve. And customs, as customs do, will slowly evolve and make much of the cruelty a thing of the past. But it will not be done on a Western timeline.

SunshineAndShadows Wed 24-Jun-15 11:56:47

What discussion were you listening to Lou? I have first hand experience of this industry. Farms exist in S Korea and supply a minority of dogs in China. It's simply not cost effective for a dog farm to meet licensing and disease control legislation there. Dog stealing is rife and many of the dogs killed wear collars - farmed dogs do not. The situation is the same in Vietnam with retaliatory acts from concerned dog owners resulting in the deaths of some theives.

Absolutely changes should be supported, in China and Vietnam at least most of the outcry is being driven by concerned citizens fed up of having their pets stolen, and concerned about the disease risks and social disharmony that this industry generates. But perpetuating the notion that it's the same as a legal regulated industry of livestock slaughter is nonsense.

mcgiblets Wed 24-Jun-15 12:06:07

@LazLouLou

Every breed of domesticated dog, every single one exists not for food but to be at our side. Doesn't matter if it's from the East the West or whatever. Saying it's their culture so it's fine is as good as saying it's fine to eat humans. There are a lot of things various cultures around the world find acceptable but it does not make them so.

In our culture we allow the mistreatment of livestock that exists only for our use, this is also wrong.

GahBuggerit Wed 24-Jun-15 12:10:22

its appalling how they are treated, no standards of animal welfare at all.

I wish I could unsee a video some utter twat sent to me, I wont say what I saw in it as its far too distressing, I can feel my eyes filling up now just remembering it, and the person doing what they were doing to the poor thing seemed to get some sort of kick out of it aswell. Bastards.

LazyLouLou Wed 24-Jun-15 13:42:40

I went hunting round the dial after J Vine's show, Sunshine. As I said, it was really hard to evaluate the information as most people had very obvious agendas, so I have no idea what the realities are in any country.

I didn't say it was the same as legal slaughter, just that my overriding sense yesterday afternoon was that yes, it is horrific but that changes are underway - specifically in the emergent middle classes in China who appear to be mortified at the world's view and are lobbying for banning/regulation on their own terms. It is this I think we should be supporting, rather than continuing with the heated dialogue that seems to prefer hearing its own voice, rather than finding a pathway to action.

mcgiblets your claims re dogs is simply not true. Not all breeds of dogs are companion animals.

GahBuggerit I know what you mean. I was shown some anti vivisectionist material a while ago. It was utterly gross. However I knew that some of it was not what it seemed. They told us one vet was shown administering painful injections to further some dubious science. They claimed it was from a recent 'fact finding mission'. However I knew the vet. He died in the early 90s. Oh, and his job was human euthanasia in some of the worst labs across the UK. He was one of the good guys, leading a government funded clean up scheme, collecting evidence that got many labs closed down and gave evidence in to a lot of the committees of the time. He was quite well known for being outspoken and yet here they were depicting him as an animal torturer. He was easily identifiable.

For this reason I hold a very sceptical view of all such videos.

LazyLouLou Wed 24-Jun-15 13:44:13

human???? humane... sorry blush

(then again, back then I would probably have voted for taking out some of those humans)

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