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so did Nicola Sturgeon say she wanted Cameron as PM? [title edited by MNHQ]

(77 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

agentEgypt Fri 22-May-15 22:49:56

Not surprised at all. Now what were all the SNP supporters saying about them being different?hmm

KatharineClifton Fri 22-May-15 23:02:39

'Mr Carmichael said it was an error of judgement and he accepted "the details of the account are not correct".'

1) Learn to read.
2) Read the article attached above.
3) Report this thread for deletion. As it's defamatory.

prettybird Fri 22-May-15 23:09:42

Agree that this should be deleted. Or the title changed to "So Coalition Cabinet Member Carmichael deliberately lied and then allowed £1.4 million of public money to be spent on an enquiry when he already knew who the source was himself " angry

AgentProvocateur Fri 22-May-15 23:23:00

Back up your post, OP. Thd reports I've read say the opposites, and NS has always denied it. What are you reading, and are you able to understand what you're reading?

AgentProvocateur Fri 22-May-15 23:23:37

Sorry for typos. My phone is crap and I'm pissed wink

PacificDogwood Fri 22-May-15 23:25:02


Does not every supporter of any party feels that they 'are different'?
You are factually wrong, and even if you were right, I'd disagree with your point. Not an SNP voter here, btw.

Iggi999 Fri 22-May-15 23:28:48

OP - are you on glue? Have reported.

PattiODoors Fri 22-May-15 23:29:21

Weird kind of double think being employed by you there, agent egypt.

Or you have misunderstood, mebbe?

AgentProvocateur Fri 22-May-15 23:30:35

What do you mean? confused

AgentProvocateur Fri 22-May-15 23:32:07

Ignore me - there are two "agents" here. As I said before, I am pissed. Sorry, Patti. I'm going to bed now.

PattiODoors Fri 22-May-15 23:32:40

Not you, AgentP

The OP

PattiODoors Fri 22-May-15 23:34:19

I think you could have a martini, shaken not stirred, on the way!

AgentProvocateur Fri 22-May-15 23:59:11

Goodnight blush

FannyFifer Sat 23-May-15 00:05:55

Think the op is as big a liar as Carmichael.

agentEgypt Sat 23-May-15 07:30:18

What the?! The report concluded that she wanted Cameron as mp!

agentEgypt Sat 23-May-15 07:32:18

A leaked civil service memo which alleged the Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon wanted David Cameron to win the general election was an “accurate” record of a conversation with a French official, an investigation has concluded.
The former Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael admitted he had agreed to leak the memo to a newspaper during the election campaign after his involvement was exposed by a Cabinet Office inquiry. But, significantly, the inquiry concluded that the memo itself was genuine and “an accurate record of the conversation that took place between him (the civil servant) and the French Consul General”.

agentEgypt Sat 23-May-15 07:34:54

I'm I the only one that can read here. I should report you all!

He said it was an error to leak it, what he did leak was accurate!

PacificDogwood Sat 23-May-15 07:43:33

The Independent article gives a different slant.

I have no idea what to believe tbh.
But then I have a very cynical view of politicians of any coleur hmm

AuntieStella Sat 23-May-15 07:46:27

Yes, The Independent is definitely going with the 'accurate record' (and reflects that in its headline).

I don't find it particularly surprising that 'the devil you know' won out here. There was nothing to suggest any alternative existed that was more competent (which given some of the coalition fuck ups is saying something). And at least the Tory 'black hole' could be qualified; the Labour one was too vague to put numbers on.

So it's a win for her: the 'nasty party' rhetoric can still be used; as can the 'no austerity' platform (despite their manifesto showing how mendacious that claim was; IFS analysis showing they were actually offering different austerity for longer).

She's had a very good election. The issue now will be what profile Scottish MPs take at Westminster, whether they are able to influence anything, and what rhetoric will be attached to their actions.

agentEgypt Sat 23-May-15 07:46:50

The outcome of the official report is what was leaked was accurate!

Aka she lied whehn she said it was 100% untrue!

If this was anyone else people would be calling for them to resign.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Sat 23-May-15 07:50:00

You're reading it wrong, agentEgypt. The civil servant who wrote the memo that got leaked believed Nicola Sturgeon had said this but appears to have got it wrong, without any malicious intent. The French Consulate confirms that NS never said she wanted David Cameron as PM.

The BBC report linked above says:

The confidential memo was published by the Daily Telegraph on 3 April as the general election campaign got under way.
It was written by a civil servant in the Scotland Office and claimed Ms Sturgeon told the French Ambassador to the UK, Sylvie Bermann, that she would prefer Mr Cameron, the leader of the Conservatives, to remain as prime minister.

And lower down:

The memo was written following a discussion between the civil servant, who has not been named, and the French Consul-General about a meeting Ms Sturgeon had with Ms Bermann.
It stated that part of the conversation between the ambassador and the first minister might well have been "lost in translation".
At the time, Ms Sturgeon said she rejected the claim "100%", while the French consul-general in Edinburgh, Pierre-Alain Coffinier, also said the memo was not accurate and that Ms Sturgeon had not expressed any preference for a prime minister.

And lower down still:

The Cabinet Office report said the civil servant who wrote the memo believed it to have been an accurate record of the conversation that took place between him and the French Consul-General, but pointed out that he had already highlighted that it could have been "lost in translation".
The Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Haywood concluded that there was no reason to doubt that the civil servant recorded accurately what he thought he had heard.
The report said: "Senior officials who have worked with him say that he is reliable and has no history of inaccurate reporting, impropriety or security lapses.
"The Cabinet Secretary has concluded that there is no reason to doubt that he recorded accurately what he thought he had heard. There is no evidence of any political motivation or 'dirty tricks'."

Eigg Sat 23-May-15 07:51:07

OP my understanding is that the memo was written by a civil servant who was not present at the meeting between the First Minister and the French Ambassador.

The civil servant wrote it after a discussion with the French Consul about what had taken place.

It has been accepted that the civil servant accurately documented what the French consul told them but that parts if the conversation between the FM and Ambassador were 'lost in translation'.

Both the FM and the French Ambassador have said that the statements in the memo reporting their meeting were inaccurate.

So the civil servant writing the memo didn't lie, but they were given poor information.

Basically a classic case of people playing Chinese Whispers and compounding it with some pretty appalling dirty tricks electioneering.

Carmichael only won in Orkney and Shetland by 800 votes (defending a majority of 9000). If I was a constituent I'd be spitting fire right now.

I'm not sure how he can continue to represent his seat with his integrity so thoroughly compromised.

Finlaggan Sat 23-May-15 07:53:49

No she didn't OP. It was fabricated nonsense issued during a GE. Alistair Carmichael should step down.

agentEgypt Sat 23-May-15 07:54:25

Or maybe your reading it wrong just going by the BBC one.

Either way the people calling me a lier, on glue and unable to read owe me an apology.

AuntieStella Sat 23-May-15 07:57:15

You cannot really attach more weight to the French Consul's account (which he is standing by) than to the civil servant's account (which s/he is standing by).

I assume The Independent will have had the article carefully checked by lawyers (as national media routinely does) so the record is accepted as accurate, but the underlying veracity cannot be ascertained.

There are pretty obvious reasons why it could be either version.

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