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UK teens among the most badly behaved in Europe

122 replies

WhizzBangCaligula · 02/11/2006 11:37

Oh God.

report here

This is so depressing. I want to move.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 11:43

I'm not surprised.

45% of their evenings w/other kids?

Yeah.

I saw that and was completely appalled.

2ManyPimms · 02/11/2006 11:58

What is worrying is that they are parenting the next generation.

The country is going down the toilet.

expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 11:59

I'm in Scotland and I see scores of teens out on their own every night.

WTF?

How can you know your kid that way?

I don't know what hte future holds for my own if things keep going that way.

expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 12:05

.

Marina · 02/11/2006 12:11

That really is depressing reading
Packs of rowdy teens local to where we live make even the shortest walk after dark a nerve-jangling affair tbh. And they seem to have nothing better to do than smash glass under the slides and swings in what passes for our local park.
And we do not live in a rough part of London at all really, just one where, as the report says, community and family life seems to be in tatters.

webcrone · 02/11/2006 12:24

There's also this one

better than 20 years ago

KatherinewheelMCMLXXII · 02/11/2006 12:32

But in some areas there really is nothing else for them to do. Where I was living in Leicester all the town centre leisure centres had closed down, replaced by lots of private health clubs - and how many teens can afford that?
In the 80s there used to be much more money spent on things like youth clubs, as well. (Have just been re-reading the Adrian Mole books from then and they seem to spend a lot of their time hanging out at the youth club.)
Then there is the decline of things like scouting (which was big in the 60s even among teens) because they can't get the volunteers to run them any more.

Of course parents bear a large part of the responsibility, but I think the problems have been exacerbated as a result of policies over the last 20 years - if there were constructive ways available for them to spend their time I'm sure a lot (though not all) would take them up.

expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 12:33

As the report says, however, they DON'T need to be spending more time w/other teens, but w/adults.

And that's what's not happening, unfortunately.

KatherinewheelMCMLXXII · 02/11/2006 12:42

This was a depressing line from the article too:
"Britons are also more immersed in consumerism than American youngsters, the research claimed. "

(Normally we're somewhere between America and the rest of Europe of the scale-of-things-to-wring-your-hands-about - now they've found one on which we're WORSE than America! Yikes!)

Marina · 02/11/2006 12:45

I agree with you up to a point Kathy, but the leisure centre factor certainly doesn't apply in our case, because in our LB we are lucky to have some of the best and most accessible facilities in London, and the council knocks itself out to offer sessions and facilities to appeal to teens (special gym sessions, dance classes, loads of football pitches) all very reasonably priced - virtually free to low-income families.
More youth clubs and non-sporty activities would be good.
But, thinking about it, locally scouts and guides, youth theatres etc are still available to teens as they were in my adolescence - in fact, if anything, cinemas are cheaper and more accessible now and the council certainly does more.
I think the collapse of family life is more to do with it tbh. After youth theatre on Saturday mornings the clear expectation was that I'd be straight home for lunch.

Marina · 02/11/2006 12:47

But am no apologist for the disgraceful policies in the 80s "no such thing as society" indeed
David Cameron can suck eggs in Hell before I'd vote for the party responsible for all that

expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 12:48

Katherine
Recall, too, that religion is beginning to play an increasing role in US family life, and NOT just Christianity, before anyone starts in about the religious right.

As a result, you do see, in many areas, much more emphasis on the important of family life and 'family values' there than here.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, b/c I never had kids in the US, both mine are Scots, but it is a factor, probably.

expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 12:49

Also, Katherine, childhood obesity levels in Scotland are now growing faster than those in America, where, after smoking levels have fallen off dramatically, the next target is obesity.

KatherinewheelMCMLXXII · 02/11/2006 12:51

Interesting, Marina. That certainly does sound like there is no shortage of stuff to do where you are. Good point about cinemas too - when I was a teen it was the period when there were hardly any cinema around, because the home video had been invented but there were no multiplexes.

What do you think the causes of the collapse of family life are though? I suppose us working long hours has a lot to do with it... a caller to The Wright Stuff this morning was blaming it on single mothers

foxinsocks · 02/11/2006 12:51

ah marina, was wondering how long it would be before politics came into it!

If you don't have supportive parents at home, you need role models. I don't think there are that many great role models around at the moment. These kids look up to the footballers, rappers etc. and most of the time, their behaviour leaves a lot to be desired anyway.

bossykate · 02/11/2006 12:51

nothing else for teen to do???

what about making your own entertainment like in my day? what with listening to miserablist music, endless chatting to friends on the phone, continuous brooding on how life simply wasn't fair... the long winter evenings just sped by!

expatinscotland · 02/11/2006 12:57

I think the collapse of the family has MUCH to do w/it.

Also the failure of the law to protect society from dangerous offenders and to punish offenders in any sort of way resembling justice.

KatherinewheelMCMLXXII · 02/11/2006 12:58

Expat - hmm, yes, I'm sure you're right about religion being a big factor.
We tend to hear a lot about the scary American Christian right - it makes great tv and makes us feel very superior and rational but I definitely agree that religion in general has a lot of good consequences too (which is why I don't agree completely with Richard Dawkins as discussed in that other thread).
Are there fewer WOHMs in the US, do you know?

Marina · 02/11/2006 13:00

bk, we were lucky to have Inner Resources though (and parents who were around to either nurture these or jeer at them, depending).
I spent several months in my room willing myself to turn into Kate Bush at that age.
I really do feel for teenagers whose adult carers don't seem to know them, or want to. I am not sure it is just a question of being present in the home, although that HAS to help. Even now I hear some parents quite happily saying their young child spends all his spare time in his room and they have no idea what he is up to. They are nice acquaintances but the deal in our house is that bedrooms are generally for sleeping in and the rest of the time we spend in each other's company. Doing our own thing or stuff together, but in each other's sight and hearing.
And could not agree more about role models - the media nowadays, print and TV, dominates teenager's lives like it never did 20 plus years ago. The transparency of the celebrity lifestyle means they all know about the drugs, the shagging and the eating disorders - we didn't.

KatherinewheelMCMLXXII · 02/11/2006 13:02

"These kids look up to the footballers, rappers etc. and most of the time, their behaviour leaves a lot to be desired anyway."

Yes Foxinsocks, my SIL is convinced that the reason why so many young men spit in the street these days is that they've seen footballers do it on the pitch.

Bossykate - you were allowed to spend hours chatting on the phone? Gosh you would never have got away with that in my family. We had to brood in silence.

VoluptuaGoodshag · 02/11/2006 13:09

Discussed this with DH last night. He thought there were more single parent families where the parent would probably be working so less interaction with the child. But I argued that there are also lots more two parent families where both parents work. I don't think that the breakdown of families generally is the sole reason. I think there has been a steady decline of respect, standards and no examples set by way of punishment for crimes committed. I mean when you are bringing up younsters everyone agrees that they will always test the boundaries that parents set so you have some mechanism in place to make sure they know what the boundaries are but when they get to their teens, it seems to me that too many get off lightly for misdemenours so they think they are bullet proof. We live in an age where more people own their houses than before, mass consumerism is rife, kids want to be celebrities rather than get a job, footballers should get oscars for their acting performance when fouled. I don't necessarily think that it's not spending enough time in adult company. When I was a teenager I spent most nights roaming the street with my pal and her dog but we never caused trouble, we certainly didn't want to sit in with our parents discussing topical social items. We knew the difference between good and bad, right and wrong.

Sorry for going on ..... phew

WhizzBangCaligula · 02/11/2006 13:19

There's also a report that teenagers see ASBO's as a badge of honour. Dave Cameron has just said that family breakdown leads to ASBO society... they're linking the two stories...

OP posts:
Marina · 02/11/2006 13:19

Our phone was in the hall (draughty) and wall-mounted with no chair in sight. We were expected to brood alone or with one or two vetted friends too Kathy. More than one joss-stick had dad up in arms - but he cheerfully collected us from such away fixtures at 11pm and ran friends home too

FairyMum · 02/11/2006 13:23

I think the media is obsessed about ASBO-teens. Of course it is a problem, but I also think its a problem that there are so many grumpy people in this country who don't let children be children and teens be teens. There is a very low tolerance for chilodren and teens in this country. I am not talking about blatant ASBO behaviour, but only yesterday my DS1 was told of for dancing in Waitrose by a grumpy old fart. The majority of children and teens are perfectly well behaved!

foxinsocks · 02/11/2006 13:27

yes, I keep meaning to start a thread about who were our role models/people we looked up to when we were teenagers.

I was probably what would be described as a 'troubled teen' (snigger) but it was largely to do with the breakdown of our family unit. Had it not been for a large company taking me on for work experience when I was about 16, I'm sure I would have turned out completely differently. They virtually ordered me to get a grip on my life and see the wood for the trees which luckily I did.

Incidentally, neighbour across the road (with a 16 yr old) was lamenting the fact that you hardly get apprenticeships anymore - her son had to really fight to get a decent job as no-one wanted to employ him. When I was around that age, a lot of us had jobs (and with that, people in the workplace to look up to) and the responsibility that came with them.

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