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Police hunt 'woman who choked infant in his pram uttering "that baby would rather be dead".'

(28 Posts)
Islingtonian Tue 17-Feb-15 11:50:04

Woman choked infant in his pram uttering "that baby would rather be dead".

Absolutely sickening news story - both in the sense of what happened and how unwell that woman must be.

LongDistanceLove Tue 17-Feb-15 11:52:29

That is sickening indeed, why on earth did the security guard let her go?

26Point2Miles Tue 17-Feb-15 12:25:07

Security guards have no powers of arrest.... But she needs catching!

850Pro Tue 17-Feb-15 12:27:42

This hope they lock her away for a long time.

Quinandthem Tue 17-Feb-15 12:32:14

I was thinking what I would do in that situation and I couldn't believe the overwhelming desire to do physical harm.

I agree they probably do have mh issues as no rational person would do that. Let's hope they get caught and treated soon.

Fevertree Tue 17-Feb-15 12:34:34

Horrific! I have tears in my eye after watching that. That baby's mum must be so upset.

850Pro Tue 17-Feb-15 12:47:14

How comes anytime a man attacks a child on here his called all the names possible, without any information,

yet a woman does it and the first reaction is that she must have mh issues?

MuttersDarkly Tue 17-Feb-15 12:47:54

I don't think "locking her away for a long time" will necessarily be the most useful option on the table.

She may need to be in a secure environment, perhaps even long term. It depends on how ill she is, how well her illness responds to medication and what support can built into her life to make sure she is best placed to maintain any mental stability that can be created.

I feel for the mother. Heart and soul. That is a deeply traumatic event at a time when a woman can already be at a low ebb and prone to anxiety. In her shoes I would be beside myself. However my limitless sympathy for her does not require the throwing under a bus of somebody who is quite possibly one more person failed by "couldn't give a fuck in the community" and ever shrinking MH services that simply cannot cope with the demands placed upon it.

The reality is that if instead of going all "lock 'em up" people responded with the same degree of revulsion and anger towards the successive governments that have decimated MH services ... there could well be fewer incidents that cause such pain to the victims and such a sense of an unpredictable, scary world to observers.

Not to mention fewer people with MH issues being left to fend for themselves when they are in no fit state to do so.

I'm not saying don't react with anger, outrage and horror. Those are perfectly natural reactions to something as terrifying and random as this. But any chance of a solution that reduces the potential for such events requires those strong feelings to be channelled towards those who chose to prioritise health service savings over the wellbeing and safety of the mentally ill and the general public who encounters the small minority that are a danger to others, rather than just themselves.

MuttersDarkly Tue 17-Feb-15 12:54:30

850Pro

It takes only the smallest mental effort to recognise that it is the MO of the attack, rather than the gender of the attacker, that suggests MH issues.

The choice to exercise that minor mental effort or not, is yours alone.

AntiHop Tue 17-Feb-15 13:03:49

Totally agree with muttersdarkly. It seems unlikely that someone would behave in this way unless they are seriously mentally unwell. But don't forget that most people with mental health conditions are not violent.

26Point2Miles Tue 17-Feb-15 13:31:50

There is no money or resources for 'secure environments' or ' support built into her life'.... It will be the bare minimum. The rest of us, the public, are at the mercy of incidents like this

GotToBeInItToWinIt Tue 17-Feb-15 13:32:09

I think if a random man in the street/a shop did this to a baby, it would be suggested that they have mental health issues also. It is the way the attack was carried out and the nature of the attack, and not the gender of the attacker, that indicates mental health problems.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Tue 17-Feb-15 16:07:53

I agree, it's the nature of the attack rather than the gender of the attacker.

Is that correct that security guards can't detain people? They seem to when someone is caught stealing, I've even seen them chasing suspected thieves along the street.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 17-Feb-15 16:42:58

If the police can't track down a lunatic in a poncho and a deerstalker, they're really not trying very hard.

26Point2Miles Tue 17-Feb-15 16:45:43

No, only the police have powers of arrest! Tho anyone can perform a citizens arrest, which the sec guard could have done. Or he could have asked her to wait for the police. To do so forcibly would not be lawful

suitsyousir Tue 17-Feb-15 16:48:33

Security guards (and any citizen) has the power to arrest anyone who has committed, or is suspected of committing an arrestable offence. Assault is an arrestable offence.

I have worked in retail security, and currently work part time as a door supervisor and have arrested plenty of people for assault, drugs etc etc. I can understand a member of the public not wanting to arrest but that security guard had no excuse for not doing so. He should be fired instantly.

suitsyousir Tue 17-Feb-15 16:49:37

And ANY person can use "reasonable force" to carry out that arrest. (I was also a police officer many years ago).

TheReluctantCountess Tue 17-Feb-15 16:50:45

That must have been very frightening for the mother.

suitsyousir Tue 17-Feb-15 16:51:37

Sec 24a Police and Criminal evidence Act. Sorry not sure how to make a clicky link!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/15/part/3/crossheading/powers-of-arrest

26Point2Miles Tue 17-Feb-15 16:55:26

Yes, it's just a citizens arrest. That's all

ScotsWhaHae Tue 17-Feb-15 16:57:09

Bizzare.

Why over a month later is the appeal made?

The mother doesn't even go near her baby after'

26Point2Miles Tue 17-Feb-15 16:58:09

Nothing to stop the 'arrested' person just walking off. These days you're on dangerous ground if you try and detain anyone. He's probably been had this way before and is reluctant to find himself answerable to usage of any force. The sec guard at my work says its not worth the trouble these days

suitsyousir Tue 17-Feb-15 17:00:08

Its no different to a Police arrest. When i do it through work you still have to give the caution, make notes of significant comments and tell the person the reason for arrest. The only difference is that the Police are allowed to arrest someone they suspect "might be" about to commit an offence. The public have to wait until an offence is committed.

suitsyousir Tue 17-Feb-15 17:01:10

26point2miles its sounds like the security at your work is in the wrong job.

suitsyousir Tue 17-Feb-15 17:05:27

Yes there is everything to stop the arrested person walking off. Reasonable force used by the security guard as written law. smile

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