Madness!? My atheist friend had her daughter baptised to get her into a faith school

[oliviasmummy]

This is a story about my good friend (you know who you are!!) who recently had her dd (aged 1) baptised. The best school for dd in her area is a C of E primary, and, after enquiring about catchment areas etc she was told that the child should also be baptised to assure entry. This she duly arranged, although feeling, that on the basis of all probability, god does not exist. She does not worship or pray to any such god.
Her argument for doing this is that she wants the best for her child, and if that includes putting dd through some silly ritual that involves water over the head and a nice frilly dress then so be it!
I think that this should be discussed, is she jumping through hoops, as it were, to secure a greater good, or is she being a hypocrite, ignoring her beliefs when it suits?
While I write this as a gentle little probe to annoy, I wonder how other MNers would respond?

[donnie]

OMG just don't get people started on this one....

[Pruhoohooohoooooni]

It's the system that sucks. Her behaviour is neither here nor there IMO. Yes on one level it's totally hypocritical, but given the appalling way things are organised, I don't blame her.

[evilanniedividedin2byalargeaxe]

I would say that it may be the best school now, but that might all have changed in 3 years when her daughter starts, and she will have compromised her ideals for no reason.

But we would all go to extraordinary lengths to do what's best for our dds and dss, wouldn't we?

[TheDullWitch]

I don't blame her. What do you do when the one decent school in the area demands outlandish rituals? It is no worse than moving next to a good school. And it is better than renting a second home in a catchment area. Or she could pay. And, arguably, that is a bigger betrayal of principles.

Yes, the whole system sucks. Wait til she s going through secondary transfer.

[HallgerdaLongcloak]

oliviasmummy, I wouldn't do what your friend has done, but I can't see a big problem with atheists ignoring their beliefs when it suits them. After all, who's going to strike us down for hypocrisy .

[southeastastralplain]

oh it pisses me off. the more people send their children to the 'less decent' school the more standards will rise, it's logical. parents are making the system the way it is

[CountessDracula]

Well I don't agree with what she has done at all

But then neither do I agree with church schools it is just discrimination.

[Tinker]

Yes, the problem is faith schools in teh first place. But, no, would NOT do what your friend had done though.

[gscrym]

I don't have a kiddie in school yet but was wondering. If people move, change things to get their kids in a better school, does that not mean that the local school will go even further down if there's no-one to support it? I don't know how it works, just wondering.

[HallgerdaLongcloak]

southeastastralplain, I don't get the argument that individual parents can really improve poor schools by sending their children there. Have you actually done this, and how did you make a big difference? I'm not point scoring here, just interested.

[TheDullWitch]

It does work. But you have to do it in tandem with bunch of likeminded parents and endure tension and guilt your children could be getting a shit education every bit of the way. And if there is a crap head, forget it.

When middle class children enter the school in large numbers - who learn at home, have access to books, are tutored and encouraged, who are less of a discipline disaster ? the SATs go up.

[anorak]

I'm hoping to move within the next few months. The only problem with the town I want to move to is that all the primary schools are C of E. Will I have to have my son baptised to get him a place? What if I just say he's been baptised, will the school expect me to produce a certificate?

[UnquietDad]

I wonder what would happen if all parents who want to send their children to a faith school had to attend church - not just for a bit, but until the child left school. At least 12 years of church! What a commitment! That'd sort them out!

And I say that as a complete atheist, who thinks there shouldn't bloody well be faith sodding schools at all, thank you.

Like others, on balance, I mainly blame the system and not your friend.

[oliviasmummy]

Hallgerda - excellent point, but you wouldnt do it, as I wouldnt, why? Because there will come a point when that religeon would spill over into family life and its one thing having a half hearted baptism but another trying to explain about god, heaven and the bible when its not really in your belief system.

[Ladymuck]

But at you say it depends on the head first and foremost, and a poor head will greatly diminish parental effectiveness.

[Marina]

anorak, if all the primary schools in the town are C of E, then they will have to provide places for church attenders and non-believers alike between them. There are two types of C of E school (just cannot remember what they are called, sorry) and one is much more open to the wider community than the other.
In places like eg Clifton in Bristol where the same applies, I can guarantee you will not have to have your son baptised or pretend he has been.

[anorak]

Thank you Marina, I am glad about that.

[oliviasmummy]

Dad, that certainly would sort them out, but surely would build an army of quiet disbeleivers in faith school systems, which my friend would be adding to, in my opinion. Its a tricky subject, but, like some posters pose, would be easier if people made the best of poorer schools and didnt keep feeding the faith schools which are better funded. Of course, for kids of religeous parents a faith school is the logical way to go (although I think they should be able to make their own minds up, before being labelled, Christian/Jewish/Muslim children)
We all want the best for our children, the question is, do we want the quick fix, or the long term solution?

[TheDullWitch]

Yes it would "be easier if people made the best of poorer schools". But who is prepared to accept mediocrity in your kid's one and only chance and education?

[Pruhoohooohoooooni]

School's about education not religion.
You can't blame people for wanting a better education for their children, and if this is how they get it (with the downside that they have to deal with the religion) then what else do you expect them to do?
If you want a school system where the religion is undiluted by the unbelievers, I believe they exist - for a fee.

[UnquietDad]

Although a lot of fee-paying schools have a "broadly Christian ethos", don't they? The two nearest to us certainly do.

I'm with Richard Dawkins, who thinks that children should certainly learn about religion in school - the cultural significance of it is too great to overlook - much as you wouldn't study Ancient Greece without learning about the Greek Gods. He just thinks, as I do, that children shouldnt be taught from any particular religious standpoint.

RD also thinks the Bible should be studied as a work of great literature (King James version, obviously) and again I agree - it informs our reading of so much else, not least Shakespeare.

[BloodyTenaLady]

My jamaican Christian friend married a non practising Jew and had little fellas dinkle circumcised!!!! WHY? They both attend a C of E Church to worship. I felt sick that she could even consider it, even thought she may be a little mad. I wonder why i dont keep in touch these days Hmmmm!

[ingym23]

The "best" school where I live (out of a bad bunch) is a Roman Catholic school. DH is Catholic, I am not, but we had DS baptised when he was 8 months. We last attended mass last April (just before DS turned one). DS threw up in the hymn book. We have been too embarrassed to go back.

Problem is, now I am thinking about education for DS. This school takes practising Catholics first, then baptised Catholics, then "others". The priest, who does "know" us, needs to sign off on our application that we are "practising". But if we haven't been for 18 months we aren't really are we?

I am wondering how many times we will have to go to Mass for him to OK DS's form!

Hypocritical?

Youbetcha....

But you have to do what you have to do...