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UKIP’s 1st MP; Clacton’s Carswell has the gig, so what is UKIP's ‘change’?

(47 Posts)
Isitmebut Mon 13-Oct-14 15:31:19

I did not expect to see new UKIP MP Mr Carswell being interviewed by Andrew Marr Show when I switched on yesterday; but here was the new Deputy Leader of UKIP, joining the ‘Westminster elite’ who make our laws and run the country, so I was very interested to hear why British politics needed an “earthquake” of change, and what UKIPs solutions were to our everyday problems.

Mr Carswell straight out of the traps and jabbering as fast as a greyhound running on speed, led with the apparently URGENT need for democratic ‘change’, where he will try and get cross party support to put in place MP ‘recall’ - where for whatever reason if a constituency gets say 20% of their voters to sign a petition to oust an MP, they can bin them and put a UKIP one in, or something like that.

UKIP, the party that has bastardised English democracy for decades by campaigning/bombarding social media for 20-years obtaining millions of votes on leaving the EU and cutting immigration - resulting in 24 highly paid but regionally useless UKIP MEPs in Brussels – are NOW targeting Westminster seats on similar false pretences, at the same time wanting us to believe that THEY are bastions of UK democracy. Lol

Mr Carswell also said the reason that he left the Conservatives back benches to gain political power as a UKIP Deputy Leader and the Farage heir apparent, was that they (the Conservatives) need to politically ‘modernise’, using the retail equivalent of moving from an HMV to a Spotify, WHAAAT?

Well about then, the only thing that became ‘spotified’ was my underwear for laughing so much.

So what makes UKIP so ‘different’ to the other ‘Westminster elite’ and the sole main ‘change’ they want to make, is to make it easier for UKIP’s media bombardiers of misinformation, to oust sitting MP’s whose governing party is making tough decisions, to be replaced by sub standard UKIP candidates - who TO-DATE, have not gained ONE Westminster seat of their own peddling UKIP EU misrepresentation and domestic flip flopping policies.

How should UK Westminster politics with the financial, economic, and social problems of today BE modernised?

Should the modernised UK annual budget deficit be called the Budget Deficiency? The modernised accumulating nation debt from those annual budget deficits that will be close to £1,500,000,000,000 in 2015, be toned down so not to frighten ‘the people’ and be called the National Promise?

Offering more democratic decisions is a GREAT IDEA when the UK has an annual budget SURPLUS of £5-£10 billion plus and the peoples voice is important to how that surplus is best spend for them. But with the apparent £75 billion to £90 billion DEFICIT estimates by 2015 (half of the 2010 figure), UKIP the party of populist soundbites and MP Carswell’s main policy of ‘recall’ - will remain an anti democratic Sword of Damocles over EVERY MP trying to do the right thing for the country now and our future generations.

So come the 2015 General Election the UK will have that budget deficit that can only be paid off by a combination of economic growth, tax rises and spending cuts, as the world economy enters another slump as I write, putting our current economic recovery far outpacing Europe, at risk.

Businesses therefore currently preparing for huge economic ‘risks’, will then have to additionally factor in huge UK political ‘risks’ until 2020, where no main party will be in control of our deficit, tax and spend policies, currently forming the basis for their new investment/job creation plans – and future policies may either cause them to downsize again and/or need loose coalitions of 3 parties or more, to get new legislation through.

So does the UK really need Ukip/Carswell’s self serving vision of democracy and leaving an EU they pay lip service to, but don’t really care if we leave because a United Kingdom Independence Party without enough Westminster seats would no longer be relevant in British politics if we did?

A UKIP very similar to the anti EU, anti establishment, Front National in France, with two recent seats in their senate, 23 MEPs and far right wing anti immigration policies - who in true anti revolutionary British fashion have retained the those voters by cleverly toning down their anti immigration rhetoric until they see a news opportunity - but as UKIP’s Founder said, it wasn’t that long ago as we entered the worst recession in 100-years ’UKIPs flagship policy was banning the burqa’.
“Ukip Founder Alan Sked Says The Party Is 'Morally Dodgy' And 'Extraordinarily Right-Wing'”

In conclusion; As explained by Carswell, UKIP offers British politics nothing new in Westminster but a self serving democratic scam to install UKIP MPs into sitting MP’s seats, to fit along side their 20-year EU one to obtain MEPs under false pretences.

But Westminster ‘change’ for UKIPs sake , threatens the UK’s recovery now and in the future, by adding to businesses ECONOMIC risks, with future unstable POLITICAL risks that go beyond allowing Labour in as the largest party in parliament in 2015, to try tax the deficit away, destined to fail, as in France.

Lame duck UK parliaments from here on trying with solve the UK’s problems with various political party permutations is also a recipe for economic disaster, ensuring our Nation Debt (modernised to National Promise) liability will go BEYOND OUR GRANCHILDREN to sort out - all just so ‘the man down the pub’ who knows best, wants POWER, by giving us UKIP style ‘democracy’. Marvellous.

Isitmebut Mon 13-Oct-14 15:40:26

A UK Leadership debate if included UKIP, in theory should not be Farage but Carswell, UKIP's Deputy Leader and Westminster MP.

If UKIP/ Carswell's big policies are going to be democratic 'change' for UKIP's sake and other domestic policies that fully costed by the IFS will ADD £19 billion to our annual deficit, I can't wait to have my knickers 'spotified' by that debate, for a 'change'. lol

Isitmebut Mon 13-Oct-14 16:01:04

I've just heard Carswell mention 'change' on his first day in parliament.

Mr Farage's 'change' over a few weeks is to say he'd go into a coalition with anyone, to no fixed coalition with any party, to a single pact with anyone on the EU, which could only mean the Conservatives as Labour won't budge on an EU referendum - just what businesses and the job creators trying to plan years ahead wants to hear. Not.

'Change' every time the wind blows in a different direction is not just Disneyland politics, it has it's roots firmly with Mary Poppins and her brolly.

claig Mon 13-Oct-14 16:37:37

Give Carswell time to learn what UKIP is all about. He is still in Tory mode, he doesn't get it yet. He will never become leader of UKIP, he hasn't got it.
Of course the Tories want Carswell and not Farage in the TV debate, because Carswell is a walkover for them and Farage is their nemesis.

Isitmebut Mon 13-Oct-14 17:37:42

Claig … Re Carswell ‘not knowing what UKIP’s about’; I’m just the Comprehensive School idiot, I have not been wined and dined in Mayfair by your corporate backer/starategist Mr Wheeler,or hit the UKIP campaign trail with Mr Farage for several week, and I think I’ve about summed it up within my OP – so as you keep mentioning ‘change’, just read the conclusion for the gist, summed up, it’s another UKIP scam.

Now Carswell’s been elected as a UKIP MP, I don’t feel the same love from you, fickle you ‘kippers are, no doubt Mr Reckless is now ‘the one’.

FYI re Farage “the nemesis”, what Carswell ‘gets’ is to be elected for Westminster, you can’t keep talking rollocks about other parties and your interpretation of their policies, you have to say what your party can do, and take Q&A on policy detail over soundbites.

A semblance of political honesty would explain why ex Conservative Carswell has been elected to Westminster twice within five years, while Farage failed five times(?) over longer. lol

claig Mon 13-Oct-14 17:51:44

I'm not a fan of Carswell and never really was, I'm a fan of UKIP, not him. I think he may one day be used to try and challenge Farage, as the "moderniser" that Carswell is. If you listen carefully to the media, and some Tory and Labour MPs on TV, you can hear them talking about possible leadership challenges in the future etc. But if that happens, it will fail.

I like Reckless, but he keeps on talking about this "bird sanctuary". That rings warning bells of a "moderniser", so we will have to wait and see.

Farage and UKIP will change politics forever. They will bring in PR, direct democracy, local referenda, they will represent the people and give a voice to people.

claig Mon 13-Oct-14 21:49:32

Godfrey Bloom quits UKIP, says it is getting too "politically correct" grin
Tells Carswell to watch his back.

"If you bear in mind we started in 2009 in Europe with 13 MEPs, we ended up with five, so there are dead bodies of Ukip [politicians] all over the place with a knife quivering in their back, Douglas. Make sure it’s not yours.”

Shakespeare himself would have struggled to keep up with the goings on in the People's Army, but Dickens would have loved it.

On to Rochester.

The People's Army has had adequate repose, has had ample victuals and copious fortifying alcoholic beverages and has now commenced the march to Kent to besiege the spinners who have barricaded themselves in Rochester Castle.

claig Mon 13-Oct-14 22:09:22

Johnny Rotten tells voters to ignore the Guardian and New Statesman's favourite, Russell Brand. He won't say which party he supports, but judging by his comments, he wouldn't feel out of place in the People's Army and has the right attitude to achieve high office within it.

"Ignore Russell Brand and give politicians 'f**** hell' at the ballot box, says Sex Pistols lead singer Johnny Rotten"
The 58-year-old refused to say who he supported, adding: ‘I’m very wary of tagging my name on to supporting any of those phoney b*****ds, but don’t be like Russell Brand.’

Isitmebut Tue 14-Oct-14 13:34:56

Claig ….. an interesting start on this thread, as you cannot deny that UKIP’s Westminster great ‘change’ that will innovate UK politics, the economy, and improve everyone’s ‘lot’, is for UKIP to be allowed via social media misinformation, which please do not take this as a compliment, you are an excellent example – to obtain more power in Westminster via the electoral back door, as UKIP has with 24 MEPs in Brussels via the front door, promising EU/immigration reforms you could never deliver.

Lets just look at your posts on this thread, where you cast your soundbite net, over the internet, to catch opposite voters.

Carswell is indeed a ‘modernizer’, I mentioned that in my OP on the original Clacton post and this was your reply back then:

“Please do not insult the magnificent Carswell by describing him as a miserable "modernizer". Outrageous slander!”

“Great news that a man of principle has seen the light. There will be much rejoicing in Heaven that a prodigal son has seen the light and done what is right.”

Now that “man of principal” Carswell has been elected, he is seen as a clear and present danger to Farage’s leadership, something according to Panorama last night, does not bode well for his career in UKIP - as those Farage ‘bigs up’ on TV when he announces their arrival at conferences, who then try to move UKIP on from being wank political amateurs - has a massive fallout with Farage, who then calls them “dregs of rejects” on air, possibly worse off air.

UKIP is run by a FTSE Spread Betting company owner Stuart Wheeler, who clearly likes to ‘hedge his bets’ e.g. use Carswell a sitting popular MP to get your first MP, and Farage who’s ‘real job’ was a City Commodity Trader, a ruthless occupation where being a narcissist is prerequisite, as pitching your trading view every day via the markets versus everyone else.

Great Leader Farage clearly gets aggressive if the truth of HIS party’s record is held up to the light - and THIS is the toxic combinationat the top of UKIP in the cut throat world of politics, calling themselves’ the people’s army’, NOW looking to gain Westminster domination via MP ‘recall’ – and I had the National Front to compare UKIP with the far right overly nationalist parties in Europe, during the 1930’s

Re UKIP MEP Godfrey Bloom, a Founding Member of UKIP who has been a significant financial donor (apparently you only highlight new UKIP donors) leaving the party for being “too politically correct mainstream”, you seem to have left out the ‘mainstream’ which to most MPs means focusing on the REAL issues/problems, not offering edgy soundbites instead.

This nicely leads on to your pathetic attempt to discredit existing politicians/political parties with the two numb nuts you mention, Brand and Rotten, as if they UNDERSTOOD the financial and economic problems the UK faces, never mind offering real world solutions, I and others in the real UK, would have a bit of respect for them.

Isitmebut Tue 14-Oct-14 13:53:57

Why does far right UKIP opportunistically mention the issue of UK immigration, with ‘conviction’ to get MEP and MP votes, while the other political party’s squirm?

The answer as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, is that while any government can control NON EU immigration, the UK (especially UKIP) can do nothing about the right to settle/work here of EU citizens, that will always increase (as now), when the UK economy/job creation is stronger than those of the EU, which includes core founding members of the Eurozone.

UKIP as the other far right political groups across Europe, saw their appeal to voters on this core pillar of an EU trading block grow substantially, often due to the ‘open door’ mistakes made by their own governments. Within the UK during the 2000’s, the effects of economic migration on the UK’s homes, services and pay rates were AMPLIFIED (against ‘the indigenous people’, so for UKIP) by NON EU immigration we had control of, annually more than doubling above the levels of the 1990’s, that were seen as adequate for our economy (as shown below).

On NON EU citizens coming here, the annual average of Commonwealth and Other, according to the link below on Table 1, in the 1990’s, the annual average was around 86,000 each section.

Yet in the 2000’s this changed significantly, as looking at just the years 2004 and 2005, when EU immigration was expected and was much larger than expected, Commonwealth and Other figures WE HAD CONTROL OVER were combined at around DOUBLE those immigrants from the EU.
In 2004 (arriving) EU 130,000……Commonwealth 215,000 ….Other 155,000
In 2005 (arriving) EU 152,000.…..Commonwealth 180,000 ….Other 137,000

Cameron at the Conservative Conference who looked the camera straight down the lens and said that a majority Conservative government in 2015 would give the UK an EU in/out referendum – and before hand would do all that he can to negotiate REFORM EU immigration, before that vote.

The likelihood IMO is that will be one reform too far, SO ‘WE THE PEOPLE’ NEED TO KEEP OUR EU OPTION OPEN away from the direction (or misdirection) of leading politicians i.e. a Salmond or Cameron, and that can only be done via Conservative Referendum, not ‘protesting’ about it for another 20-years.

The point is that the UK should not be in a ‘Hobson’s Choice’ situation of either a weak/strong economy or low/high immigration, but currently as we have already reduced NON EU immigration back to roughly the 1990’s levels which is healthy within a multi cultural UK, unfortunately control wise, this is about as good as it gets.

The Lisbon Treaty/EU is enshrined in British law, so legally we have little control on EU migrants rights to live/work here, so WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT 2017 REFERENDUM that a minority government THIS parliament, has been unable to get through parliament against pro ‘in’ parties, both in coalition and opposition.

claig Tue 14-Oct-14 13:54:53

But you don't realise that I am sometimes joking. Of course I knew that Carswell was a moderniser right from the start - he was a Tory, what do you expect? He wants to "spotify" politics - it don't get much more patronising, pointless, pompous and "modernising" than that.

Godfrey Bloom is cleverer than he looks, so I always thought he was not for real. As a Daily Mail reader posted on the comments section "double hatchet job", just after the BBC did their Panorama attempt on Farage, the media tells us that Bloom, supposedly a real UKIP type (i.e. non politically correct), leaves the party and tells Carswell, a moderniser, to watch his back from those nasty UKIP types that he was supposed to be part of.

You have to understand how the game works and the players in the game. They will try everything they can to stop UKIP and the change that it wants to bring, because UKIP is challenging every single one of their sacred cows - the EU, climate catastrophe, the green crap, political correctness, immigration, modernisation, spin, ring-fenced foreign aid etc and it will give power to the people via PR, direct democracy, local referenda etc

The reason they don't like UKIP is that UKIP is for change, and the spinners don't want that, they want more of the same.

Isitmebut Tue 14-Oct-14 15:14:13

Claig .... please don't talk about "spinners" and "change" in the same sentence, now that thanks to Carswell we KNOW what the change is - to try and get access to Westminster by 'recall' - which I grant you is NOT the same and trying to find innovative ways to solve the UK's problems.

Bloom has obviously just uttered the truth, why are you attacking him now?

Bloom said UKIP have to (pretend to) become more credible/mainstream to widen their voter base and that Farage does not like to be challenged, as Carswell will, possibly egged on by Wheeler in a corporate 'divide and conquer' strategy - and Bloom would have been part of the 'originals' attracting the BNP vote, that forced out your main Founder Alan Sked.

I realize that you have severe problems telling facts from fiction, but usually its regarding the main parties and not your own, but don't worry, I'll help you out. lol

claig Tue 14-Oct-14 15:23:54

'Bloom has obviously just uttered the truth, why are you attacking him now?'

Bloom seems to have a habit of putting his foot in his mouth. I don't think he is stupid, so I wonder if it is deliberate. That harms the party, harms Farage etc. Now he says he is leaving and warns a newcomer, a moderniser, to watch his back from Bloom's old UKIP colleagues. Again, he has harmed the party. I wonder if that is deliberate.

Isitmebut Tue 14-Oct-14 15:43:09

Curios, that when Carswell and Reckless diss a party they are leaving for personal reasons it's the political truth, but when Bloom leaves to no apparent other party, yet gives UKIps new modernizing mucker, who has made a big difference to UKIP momentum, 'the heads up', you're looking for a slur. Do you see plots in shopping lists?

claig Tue 14-Oct-14 15:48:59

'Do you see plots in shopping lists?'

Deoends if they are written by Tories.

Isitmebut Fri 17-Oct-14 12:56:06

On UKIP MP Carswell’s Westminster debut speech and PMQT a few days later, the ‘change’ for the ‘party of the people’ was indeed as mentioned on the Andrew Marrs Show, was a Parliamentary Recall allowing constituencies wanting ‘change’, to vote out a sitting MP for ‘more change’

But where is Parliamentary Recall in the list of ‘change’ the people want?

Well certainly not in the top ten, and one has to assume that if the EU is 8th and Pensions/benefits 10th, the ‘different’ party might struggle to find a Recall policy (that allows their social media bombardiers to help kick out MPs following party reforms) in the top 25 charts

And what will be the ‘change’ to constituency politics, never to be in the party of government?

”Douglas Carswell UKIP win ‘a crying shame’ for Clacton”

The victory of UKIP's Douglas Carswell in the Clacton parliamentary by-election is "a crying shame", according to a mayor in the constituency.

"Iris Johnson, the Independent mayor of Frinton and Walton, said she did not think Mr Carswell would effect change."

"By going over to UKIP, he's got no party backing now. How's he ever going to get anything done? He'll just get outvoted every time," she said."

claig Fri 17-Oct-14 13:06:44

'How's he ever going to get anything done?'

Because after May 2015, the Party of the People aka the People's Army or the People's Revolution will possibly hold the balance of power.

Isitmebut Fri 17-Oct-14 13:35:22

Claig … “UKIP hold the balance of power” is a pipe dream, as WHO would invite Farage into a government to have him constantly grandstanding as he does, saying in government politically incorrect /sensitive‘ stuff’, knifing opposite coalition partners in the back for cheap votes - Labour or the Conservatives????

After 2015 the Lib Dems will (and should, for coalition services to the UK since the 2010 financial,economic and social precipice we saw ahead of us) still be potentially a main partner for either Conservatives or more likely Labour.

The SNP would have more seats, there will be the Welsh Wales PC, Ulster Unionist, hopefully a few more Greens (over UKIP) – generally a permutation of potential electoral lame duck chaos, of which a U-Kipper power agenda, that would make a bun fight at a chimps tea party, look democratic.

The fact is if neither Labour of Conservatives get a majority, they are likely to form minority government and every major policy would have to be thrashed out in smokey parliamentary back rooms, NOT for good governance sake, the UKIP pub.

claig Sat 18-Oct-14 22:15:45

"Carswell said that if Ukip won the Rochester and Strood byelection on 6 November, which has been triggered by the defection of Conservative MP Mark Reckless, the “silent, reflective doubt” would become “something far more kinetic and animated and urgent”.

Carswell told BBC Radio 4’s Week in Westminster: “There’s change coming to politics and I think a lot of them sat there and were thinking about what the future holds for them personally in six months’ time.”

Asked if former colleagues had indicated they were tempted to join Ukip, Carswell said: “It’s clear from conversations I’ve had that some people are thinking about their future … on both sides. I think a lot of people are thinking: ‘Is this a rerun of the SDP or is this perhaps something fundamental and profound.’ I have to keep reminding myself that, actually, it’s neither. So far we have won a single seat, we need to keep a sense of perspective.”

'is this perhaps something fundamental and profound'

Of course it is, everyone now knows that. Nothing will ever be the same again. This is a gamechanger. This is more than "spotify" or recall. This is the real deal. The people are in an uprising which has not been seen for hundreds of years.

claig Sat 18-Oct-14 22:23:33

Even that progressive, Ian Birrell, who writes for the Daily Mail and who was a former speech writer for the moderniser, Cameron, is beginning to reluctantly get it.

"An Earthquake Called Ukip Hits Britain

The U.K.’s two-party political order is shaking, with no telling who might be in power this time next year."

It is curious to think that the modest seaside resort of Clacton might end up a landmark in British history. Yet future historians may one day trace the effective end of Britain’s two-party system—and conceivably even of the Conservative Party—to this fading place of few pretensions on the Essex coast.
No wonder few dare to predict the result of a critical general election next May—the first since the introduction of five-year, fixed-term parliaments. The traditional parties are vulnerable to widespread contempt for Westminster, fueled by issues as diverse as misuse of expenses by members of Parliament, anger over bankers’ bonuses and soaring foreign-aid budgets. A new era of multiparty politics is smashing into a two-party system that has been crumbling for decades.
Perhaps it is the inevitable product of the disruptive digital era, encouraging an empowered populace to question traditional institutions."

The "disruptive" internet has allowed people to be "empowered" and they have had enough of the spinners and their progressive preaching. The game's up, the show's over, the spinners are on their way out.

claig Sat 18-Oct-14 22:32:49

Birrell's everywhere. He is in the leftwing FT too.

It's too late. Only the metropolitan elite are listening to the message. It's getting desperate.

"Britain needs a party that proudly champions cosmopolitan values"

He might as well say "metropolitan" while he is at it.

claig Sat 18-Oct-14 22:57:06

Interesting Mail on Sunday article about Brooks Newmark. Makes you wonder about the sting and the timing etc.

Isitmebut Sun 19-Oct-14 01:24:11

Farage and Newmark, two ex City folk shooting the breeze or plotting politics, either way it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. In the City senior people are often asked out to lunch by 'headhunters' for a chat, who usually keep their clients name a secret until they feel the candidate is interested.

When the 'client' is UKIP, and the vague client profile a recruiter might initially give is '20-year old anti immigration party, with one policy and no talent of their own', whats the point of using a headhunter for anonymity purposes charging fees? lol

If a serious recruiting meeting, why wasn't UKIPs rich back Stuart Wheeler doing the talking, as with Carswell, or is he only used to dish out the Deputy Leadership bribes?

Anyhoo as I doubt Mr Newmark presented a 'show and tell' of his willy to Mr Farage, I doubt 'the sting' you mention by the Mirror was a Tory or UKIP plot - just political karma, for a man destined to make a dick of himself and bound to hit the headlines sooner than later.

Isitmebut Sun 19-Oct-14 01:26:33

Claig .... going through your repertoire of UKIP soundbites, four posts up you again mention "Carswell's said change is coming to politics".....then we again go through "the earthquake"....."the metropolitan elite" …..and "the message getting through".

But UKIP now HAVE an MP in Carswell who has worked in Westminster politics for four years, fully understands that most of the UK problems stem from addressing the largest annual budget deficit in Europe - and his main focus is a policy that through MP Recall, would allow those that are constructively ADDRESSING the UK’s problems, to be replaced with UKIP candidates with lower I.Q.s, who are TALKING in political ‘change’ riddles while many changes to the 2010 problems are being addressed.

- The re-badging of some Conservative MPs with UKIP logos, is neither a political earthquake or constructive ‘change’.

- The ‘message getting through’ is that European history repeats itself, when vile opportunist right wing political parties, often with NO painless solutions to depression/recession times, grow like cancers by amplifying ‘the peoples’ problems, spreading dissatisfaction of the status quo. If memory serves, Hitler was an anti Semitic nationalist, but he had plans and implemented peacetime industrial growth, while UKIP offers the people Recall-to-growth.

- MP’s in Westminster are ‘elite’ because they make our policies and our laws, and ‘the people’ will have two main choices, the ‘elite’ that caused many of the problems prior to 2010, or the ‘elite’ fixing those problems with loads more to do – so the ‘earthquake’ in politics will be to allow a far right wing UKIP so far unable to win a seat using a ‘home grown’ UKIP candidate, to perpetuate themselves in Westminster between General Elections, via MP Recall.

claig Sun 19-Oct-14 09:13:18

"I doubt 'the sting' you mention by the Mirror was a Tory or UKIP plot - just political karma"

It obviously had nothing to do with UKIP. There was a tip-off.

‘‘Frustratingly, a lot of what has been written by journalists who’ve never broken a story in their lives, mainly at the Guardian, has been very uninformed,” Wickham laments. “They seem to think we just randomly tried to do in a load of Tory MPs, which is far from the truth. We had a very specific, explicit tip-off.’’

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